advertisement


To weight or not

I used to have an Ariston RD80 which had a slightly concave platter and screw on clamp.

I think their reasoning was that coupling the record to the platter gave the stylus/record noise a path out.

I didn't notice much difference whether the clamp was on or off.
 
Well you really should have because the RD80 came with a heavy ‘rubber’ mat and pressing the record firmly against that definitely had an effect....
 
Thanks for all your replies, I will probably leave the weight/clamp for now. I only purchased the SL150 to see what all the fuss was about with DD tt's. I've had a couple of good listening sessions with it, but I'd like to put my PTtoo back into the system.
 
I had a Michell back in the eighties and it did the job very well. Then it broke (not my fault), so I sent it back. I've not heard a word from them since.
That means that I no longer like them.

I'd suggest you may have left it rather too long to complain now. As it is, your experience is nothing like the excellent service I have always received from Michell.
 
I owned a Townsend Rock 2 for years and more recently a VPI both with threaded spindles and matching clamps. Both were super effective on warps, never damaged a record and I thought both sounded far better with the clamp in place.
 
I'd suggest you may have left it rather too long to complain now. As it is, your experience is nothing like the excellent service I have always received from Michell.

Yes, John Michell was an absolute gent, top quality service and products.
 
I wouldn't use a weight on a turntable not designed for it but my main objection is that I don't like the way they sound. It's wrong to assume the deck will automatically sound better with a weight. Don't get blinded to the things you loose by the things you gain.
 
I have a Michell Orbe. It has the screw on clamp.

I ran some cursory experiments tonight, to try to hear any difference with, or without the clamp. I certainly couldn't hear anything identifiable as bearing noise with, or without.. but will need to try again tomorrow.
Thing is.. part of the reason for the clamp on the Orbe is that the platter is made of a 'plastic', which is meant to be directly coupled to the vinyl record, so the clamp is there as much to prevent slip, as anything else.

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk/design/platter-and-clamp/

It seems to me that bearing noise ( insofar as it is present..) will enter most platters via the spindle. I suspect that the idea of the removable spindle top, a la Roksan, is a bit of a red herring, as noise can still be transmitted via the rest of the spindle, to the platter, and hence to the record. Handy for sorting off centre spindle holes though..
 
I used a medium weight rubber mat on my SL-150 MkII and it sounded fine. Felt mat was less good.

I changed the rubber mat for a FF Achromat which cleaned the sound up, especially in the bass.
I don't have to worry about clamp/weight anymore since I re-inserted my PTtoo into the system and preferred that. I really only wanted to try a dd deck to see what all the fuss was about, although now someone has told me I would like the new Technics 1200GR. :rolleyes:
 
Very nice table!
Weights make no real difference and put a lot of strain on the bearing. Buy a Michell instead.

61XomfKcC8L._AC_UL436_.jpg
This with bells on- sounds better than a very expensive record weight on my tweaked Techie.:)
 
As an aside..
Some years ago I heard a Thorens TD124, with an Alphason HR100S arm. I forget the cartridge. The owner played me some Bowie. (I'm not a fan) Next up, said owner placed a 'weight' on the spindle of the TD 124. The weight was made up of a number of VCR 'head' components, arranged in a vertical stack and held together with sellotape. Probably 4 inches high... probably weighed about half a pound. This weight made a definite difference to certain elements of detail in the sound.

As I was running a bouncy LP12 at the time.. there seemed little point in trying such a thing, since the full mass of the weight would only apply once it had severely compressed the LP12 springs.

Or summat...
 
As an aside..
Some years ago I heard a Thorens TD124, with an Alphason HR100S arm. I forget the cartridge. The owner played me some Bowie. (I'm not a fan) Next up, said owner placed a 'weight' on the spindle of the TD 124. The weight was made up of a number of VCR 'head' components, arranged in a vertical stack and held together with sellotape. Probably 4 inches high... probably weighed about half a pound. This weight made a definite difference to certain elements of detail in the sound.

As I was running a bouncy LP12 at the time.. there seemed little point in trying such a thing, since the full mass of the weight would only apply once it had severely compressed the LP12 springs.

Or summat...
No wonder you failed maths. Did you also fail physics as well? The bearing, platters, floating sub chassis and pickup/arm of the LP12 are supported by springs yes but any record would be subject to the full weight applied to it. Is your bed springy? Do you get any lighter lying on it?

What about the tracking weight? Think about it.

Cheers,

DV
 
Last edited:
No wonder you failed maths. Did you also fail physics as well? The bearing, platters, floating sub chassis and pickup/arm of the LP12 were supported by springs yes but any record would be subject to the full weight applied to it. Is your bed springy? Do you get any lighter lying on it?

What about the tracking weight? Think about it.

Cheers,

DV

You seem far more concerned that I failed maths.. than I am.

Anyway, I'm not wrong and you're not right. :p

It's a matter of degree.

What I was saying was that with a bouncy TT, the springs will first take the extra compression/extension, applied by the weight. I just don't think that's very clever in the case of a 'finely tuned thoroughbred' :D:D:D such as an LP12.

The screw on Michell clamp on my Orbe, is capable of applying a lot of force, ( if required ) whilst adding very little to the overall mass of the platter and therefore having very little impact on the suspension, which is, in any case, designed to cope. It's not a weight.. it's a clamp.

And no.. I didn't fail Physics, or English Language, which is why I would not have written. 'Did you also fail physics as well?' :p
 
You seem far more concerned that I failed maths.. than I am.

Anyway, I'm not wrong and you're not right. :p

It's a matter of degree.

What I was saying was that with a bouncy TT, the springs will first take the extra compression/extension, applied by the weight. I just don't think that's very clever in the case of a 'finely tuned thoroughbred' :D:D:D such as an LP12.

The screw on Michell clamp on my Orbe, is capable of applying a lot of force, ( if required ) whilst adding very little to the overall mass of the platter and therefore having very little impact on the suspension, which is, in any case, designed to cope. It's not a weight.. it's a clamp.

And no.. I didn't fail Physics, or English Language, which is why I would not have written. 'Did you also fail physics as well?' :p
Actually that is not what you originally said and what I highlighted in red from your post. However this is not a get at you but rather correcting the error so that others don't misunderstand. I agree with the stuff you wrote highlighted in blue above. However I think it'll depend on the actual weight applied to a record as to whether compression of the springs becomes a problem. I don't know the combined weight of all the bits mounted on the floating sub chassis assembly but lets say its 5Kg so that we can do some sums. Now how far do the springs compress when loaded with that assembly - I don't know but lets say 3mm a pure guess again so that we can do some sums. So what will happen if we add say a 0.5Kg weight onto that assembly. Well according to Hooks Law and provided that we haven't exceeded the elastic limit (unlikely) if 5Kg compresses the springs by 3mm then 5.5KG will compress by 3.3mm. So in reality it may not do much harm to experiment with weights on records although for other reasons I'm against this approach.

Cheers,

DV ex Teech
 
Actually that is not what you originally said and what I highlighted in red from your post.

It's an interesting point. As the springs give.. over a finite time.. to what extent is the mass of the weight fully borne by the record? Yes, it will be once the system stabilises.. but what about the dynamic phase?

However this is not a get at you but rather correcting the error so that others don't misunderstand.

Really? Red 'ink'? 'Did you fail physics as well?' Sounds like a dig to me..

I agree with the stuff you wrote highlighted in blue above.

Jolly decent of you.

However I think it'll depend on the actual weight applied to a record as to whether compression of the springs becomes a problem.

From a purely operational P.O.V. .clearly. The fact I didn't spell that out doesn't make me wrong. And of course there is the whole other question(s) of what weight will produce what, if any, effect on the sound of the replay. To confuse the issue, there is the difference between the desirability of 'pressing out' warps, c.f. the benefits, or otherwise, of simply 'weighting' the record. Add in mats.. felt....rubber.. etc. and you are creating a very complex system indeed.

I don't know the combined weight of all the bits mounted on the floating sub chassis assembly but lets say its 5Kg so that we can do some sums. Now how far do the springs compress when loaded with that assembly - I don't know but lets say 3mm a pure guess again so that we can do some sums. So what will happen if we add say a 0.5Kg weight onto that assembly. Well according to Hooks Law and provided that we haven't exceeded the elastic limit (unlikely) if 5Kg compresses the springs by 3mm then 5.5KG will compress by 3.3mm. So in reality it may not do much harm to experiment with weights on records although for other reasons I'm against this approach.

All no doubt correct. What are your 'other reasons?' I seem to have a vague recall of something about the resonant frequency of TT suspensions..

Cheers,

DV ex Teech

Cheers.
 


advertisement


Back
Top