advertisement


To Sub, or not to Sub...

Hi Peter, I personally like the looks of the down-firing ones better, saves seeing a full side worth of speaker cover and also keeps the driver totally safe underneath, I've read there's no difference in performance between the two.
 
Last edited:
Bk XLS200 sub here with small stand mounts in a second system and it’s so much better for it. No room correction here, just don’t make the common mistake of over egging it and keep the x over frequency low so it doesn’t give away localisation cues that the main speakers are getting their stereo image right with . . . Then you’ll be fine.

yes, 'you should only know that you have a sub when you turn it off...' I had a velodyne which worked well, and I'd normally just have it turned on at the lowest volume...
 
One of big advantages to using a sub or 2 is that you get a sense of more ambience with them , a wider and larger soundstage..some more majesty and grandeur so to speak
2 or more subs can be used not only for more or deeper bass , but will actually also smooth out the room response and using 2 subs will lower distortion when they asked to work hard..
You can generally get away with a less potent or cheaper sub by putting it in a corner and letting the room do a lot of work the sub would have to .. use room gain
as to integration , well for 200 quid you can get a mic and a minidsp 2x4hd which will allow you to mess with the sub/s from your listening chair in real time .. and dial them in perfectly
 
And having dialled them in scientifically you will find that you like it like that, your wife wants less and your headbanging mate wants more, s you'll play tunes on the settings anyway!
 
Rodney nails it in terms of benefits - it's not all about the depth of bass, but as much about the overall "air" the subs bring, expanding the soundstage etc. I'd also agree with 2 rather than 1 - I tried a single Wilson Benesch Torus centrally placed and just got distracted by it as I could hear the handover. I now have a pair placed very close to the main speakers so that problem disappears.
 
Is the room isolated from neighbors or part of a flat or non detached house?

Remember: more bass is horrendous for neighbors.
 
Ha! A good challenge..... if (when!) the Sub arrives it will disturb the local badgers before it get's to the neighbours. That said, they do have a habit of coming up to the patio doors and staring in, wondering where their peanuts are (that's the badgers, not the neighbours).
 
I don't get badgers, I used to get a friendly fox that used to ensure that all the cats stayed away. I miss having her around, in the summer of 2015 she would sit companionably on the grass a few yards away while I sat on the steps and drank coffee. On one occasion she strolled up, gave my feet a sniff and then wandered off for a bit of a kip under the plum tree.
 
If you don't want to play about with DSP, room correction, etc, then I'd advise locating the subs as close to your main speakers as possible to minimise timing delays etc. (I have my XXLS400's located inside, adjacent to, and on the same horizontal plane as my main speakers. Locating them outside my main speakers gives a smoother LF but the compromise of a much narrower soundstage resulting from having to place my mains closer together is not as desirable).

Also if you aren't hi-passing your mains then it will be much easier to dial-in the optimal crossover frequency on the subs to avoid either an overlap or hole in the frequency response if you have a visual of what's going on (i.e. I'd recommend RoomEQ wizard and a UMIK-1).
 
Last edited:
Phew...there's quite a lot to this Sub lark!! Thanks for all the great advice and anecdotes; I'm in and am just weighing up budgets, specs and options. I have to say I'm curious that there has not been a single voice so far against going down this line - I was quite expecting an even split of opinion on this, as when I last read a discussion about it some years back the views seemed significantly more negative.

The BK subs seem to have a lot of support here, and despite the slightly less than state-of-the-art website (in graphic design terms at least!) they look fantastic value for money. Any other options in the £300-£500 bracket that I should be having a close look at. Nearly all of the gear I have bought in the last 15 years has been used, so open to suggestions that might land in this price bracket 2nd hand.

Steve67 - love the fox story. Sadly, our regular fox is a bit too skanky to get attached to. When I was living and working in West London the foxes looked like they'd just strolled out of a grooming parlour and would happily wander up and take a chip from 2 feet away, but I'm in the Midlands now and life is obviously tougher for your average urban vixen.
 
I'm going to buck the trend and say I prefer no sub.

OTOH I've heard a couple of systems sound good with subs - both were B&W systems with AV receivers. I believe you need an AV receiver or some DSP crossover that can do proper integration (with delay especially) in order to do it properly. Hopefully your AV receiver can do that.
 
Another point I’d like to make is ive gone from a supposedly powerful av amp to a hifi pre/power setup and decent transmission line floorstanding speakers and definitely no longer have any need whatsoever for a sub :)
 
I'm going to buck the trend and say I prefer no sub. OTOH I've heard a couple of systems sound good with subs - both were B&W systems with AV receivers. I believe you need an AV receiver or some DSP crossover that can do proper integration (with delay especially) in order to do it properly. Hopefully your AV receiver can do that.

I think the OP's question was raised in the context of 2 channel music, not surround sound film which is a rather different issue in my experience. Regarding integration I find my ears are the best tool for both & very much system dependent - but that could just be my personal preference of the sound balance.

Another point I’d like to make is ive gone from a supposedly powerful av amp to a hifi pre/power setup and decent transmission line floor-standing speakers and definitely no longer have any need whatsoever for a sub :)

I doubt that many people use a sub with good floor-standing speakers but the OP has small stand-mounters. I have tried integrating a sub in one of my systems with floor-standers & have not been able to find the right balance for all situations so only use the sub on film, but not on music. On the other hand, in my only system with small stand-mounters, I have found a sub beneficial on music with deep bass e.g. organ, but generally not necessary on opera - & not surprisingly on action film a sub is essential.
 
The BK subs seem to have a lot of support here, and despite the slightly less than state-of-the-art website (in graphic design terms at least!) they look fantastic value for money. Any other options in the £300-£500 bracket that I should be having a close look at. Nearly all of the gear I have bought in the last 15 years has been used, so open to suggestions that might land in this price bracket 2nd hand.

I honestly don't think you'd be disappointed with a BK (or two! ;)). Don't be fooled by their 90s-style website, the construction, performance and aesthetic finish of their products is very good indeed for the money (I have the gloss black finish which helps in the stealth dept). They are are pretty much the "no brainer" choice in the <£500 price category.

Whichever brand of sub you get, I'll second the recommendation of others and strongly advise getting two of them. Also, sealed designs tend to be easier to integrate and sound 'faster' than ported designs, which is another important consideration IMO if the primary use is going to be music.
 
I built my sub using car audio bits, the sound is fantastic and it was for nothing. Car audio subs, with amps and X overs come along for loose change on Gumtree, Fleabay, Theft Converters etc. Mine integrates very well and is very easily adjustable.
 
I don't get badgers, I used to get a friendly fox that used to ensure that all the cats stayed away. I miss having her around, in the summer of 2015 she would sit companionably on the grass a few yards away while I sat on the steps and drank coffee. On one occasion she strolled up, gave my feet a sniff and then wandered off for a bit of a kip under the plum tree.

Foxes, that might explain something for me. I used to get a lot of cats around my place. So many that I cared for a number of them in sickness and health over the years. Then they stopped coming. I'll see one strolling through the yard in the early AM very infrequently now. They're practically non-existent. Talking with a local Vet, the assumption was that FIV had reached a point that decimation of the population was possible. Then a couple of months ago, early in the AM, I spotted two red foxes walking side by side from my yard to the next. That may be just as plausible an explanation as disease.
 
It's more than possible that a couple of foxes hanging around in someone's garden will ensure that cats go elsewhere. I doubt that a fox would kill a cat unless it had to, because the risk of getting injured is rather high in exchange for the food thus gained. You have to remember that a wild animal can't afford to get injured, as soon as it can no longer hunt it's curtains. On the other hand I have every confidence that a cat wouldn't want the aggro of territorial disputes that a fox is always going to win. 2 foxes especially. The land behind my garden is a steep railway cutting overgrown with hawthorn, brambles and ivy. It's fox heaven. Cats aren't going to be strolling around there without a care in the world.
 
Thanks for pointing that thread out radamel - I should have done a search I guess, but this discussion has thrown up some more insights, as well as some valuable Fox knowledge!

Thanks everyone for your contributions - I've gone for a BK XLS200 - just one for now as there is simply nowhere to put the other at the moment, but it looks likely I will end up with two eventually. I'll report back when it's here and set up.
 
I had a mad one when I got the BK 400 up and running last night....has anyone used a sub in a room while using open backed earphones (main speakers off)?
 


advertisement


Back
Top