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To Parents of 16 and 18 year olds

ks.234 said:
The idea that teachers over predict seems to have got stuck in some people’s minds. It just isn’t true.
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Sorry but it is....clearly so because teachers’ estimates produce a massive, incredible rise in results over recent years

That is not to suggest that every teacher boosted their students’ grades
But many, many did......clearly so as the evidence suggests

And this is not just my speculation; I have hard evidence of widespread boosting of grades from first hand experience; confidentiality prevents me giving more details on this

Why do you think that BTEC has grown into an alternative route into university, for which it was never initially intended?......clearly because it relies on teachers who teach the material, write and mark the assignments, and give feedback on the work which allows the student to resubmit the improved assignment to achieve a better grade..........hardly objective in my opinion
Setting aside any scrutiny of writing of assignments( at home ) so no checks on help given, no time constraints, and nowadays easy to cut and paste chunks from the internet
In my experience, cases of plagiarism arising from this rarely find against the student
The pressures on teachers to give good grades are difficult to resist

Sure there are ( so called ) checks and balances in the system, but any teacher with experience can easily navigate around these....

I personally know teachers who awarded higher grades to students who really had little chance of succeeding but were given a better estimated grade for a range of reasons.....good attendance, hard work, sympathy for having personal difficulties etc etc
All “deserving” cases

The basic problem remains

Teachers cannot be objective because they have a vested interest in producing high grades
Any court of law would reject their judgements as being unavoidably biased

simon
 
Simon Vess said:
As I mentioned above, the teacher predictions used in the grading process are supposed to be strictly confidential, so I wonder how I am hearing about about a disparity between predictions and awarded grades on the news?



Simon
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As far as I know, it is just a case of asking the teacher involved.

My daughter did this and was told.

Her and her friend both sat English Lit. Both got A stars in their mocks, predicted grades, and in the teacher assessment.

They both ended up with an A. What ?????????

Apart from being disappointed, it doesn’t matter too much to my daughter, as her results mean she can take up up her first choice offer of a place.

But this other girl needed an A star, as she had been accepted to study English Lit at Uni, on that basis.

So, her university place is in doubt, not because of her ability..... but something else.
 
Weekender said:
Another tiny sample but my son was disappointed with his predicted grades and said he would have out-performed them. He certainly did so at GCSE.
Instead he received further downgrades.
Not a criticism of his teachers just that the predicted grades did not reflect how some kids pull their performances up at exams.
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But that’s under prediction. Not over prediction.
 
ff1d1l said:
Seems to me that as the young are less affected by covid, yet have had unprecedented negatives applied to their social life, to their employment prospects, and will be paying the covid bill via taxation for decades, cutting them a bit of slack would be A Good Thing.
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Not often I agree with you (which is neither here or there) but absolutely this.

One for everyone, where is the actual evidence that teachers overgrade? I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I haven't personally seen it.
 
Simon Vess said:
That is exactly the sort of cynical politics proposed by Nicola Sturgeon , Kier Starmer, etc

Yeah......give everyone a prize ......everyone can be a winner!

everybody gets what they want!

Unfortunately it is the deserving students who would see the value of their award wiped out

Would you be happy, say, to be treated by a medic who had been given their qualification out of kindness, rather than any real evidence that it was deserved?


simon
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Interesting viewpoint - if every pupil gets overgraded by one grade for example, who is losing out and who is suddenly becoming an astronaut because they are getting an 8 in Media, not a 7?
 
Simon Vess said:
Sorry but it is....clearly so because teachers’ estimates produce a massive, incredible rise in results over recent years

That is not to suggest that every teacher boosted their students’ grades
But many, many did......clearly so as the evidence suggests

And this is not just my speculation; I have hard evidence of widespread boosting of grades from first hand experience; confidentiality prevents me giving more details on this

Why do you think that BTEC has grown into an alternative route into university, for which it was never initially intended?......clearly because it relies on teachers who teach the material, write and mark the assignments, and give feedback on the work which allows the student to resubmit the improved assignment to achieve a better grade..........hardly objective in my opinion
Setting aside any scrutiny of writing of assignments( at home ) so no checks on help given, no time constraints, and nowadays easy to cut and paste chunks from the internet
In my experience, cases of plagiarism arising from this rarely find against the student
The pressures on teachers to give good grades are difficult to resist

Sure there are ( so called ) checks and balances in the system, but any teacher with experience can easily navigate around these....

I personally know teachers who awarded higher grades to students who really had little chance of succeeding but were given a better estimated grade for a range of reasons.....good attendance, hard work, sympathy for having personal difficulties etc etc
All “deserving” cases

The basic problem remains

Teachers cannot be objective because they have a vested interest in producing high grades
Any court of law would reject their judgements as being unavoidably biased

simon
Click to expand...
This is a thread about A levels. Teachers do not award grades at A level
 
ff1d1l said:
Seems to me that as the young are less affected by covid, yet have had unprecedented negatives applied to their social life, to their employment prospects, and will be paying the covid bill via taxation for decades, cutting them a bit of slack would be A Good Thing.
Click to expand...
Fundamental to a certain conservative mindset is a horror of anyone getting something they don’t deserve, and perhaps moving out of their proper place as a result. They’d far rather some people be unjustly punished than run that risk. I think this is going to be an obstacle to the kind of u-turn we saw in Scotland.
 
Simon Vess said:
Sorry but it is....clearly so because teachers’ estimates produce a massive, incredible rise in results over recent years

That is not to suggest that every teacher boosted their students’ grades
But many, many did......clearly so as the evidence suggests

And this is not just my speculation; I have hard evidence of widespread boosting of grades from first hand experience; confidentiality prevents me giving more details on this

Why do you think that BTEC has grown into an alternative route into university, for which it was never initially intended?......clearly because it relies on teachers who teach the material, write and mark the assignments, and give feedback on the work which allows the student to resubmit the improved assignment to achieve a better grade..........hardly objective in my opinion
Setting aside any scrutiny of writing of assignments( at home ) so no checks on help given, no time constraints, and nowadays easy to cut and paste chunks from the internet
In my experience, cases of plagiarism arising from this rarely find against the student
The pressures on teachers to give good grades are difficult to resist

Sure there are ( so called ) checks and balances in the system, but any teacher with experience can easily navigate around these....

I personally know teachers who awarded higher grades to students who really had little chance of succeeding but were given a better estimated grade for a range of reasons.....good attendance, hard work, sympathy for having personal difficulties etc etc
All “deserving” cases

The basic problem remains

Teachers cannot be objective because they have a vested interest in producing high grades
Any court of law would reject their judgements as being unavoidably biased

simon
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How does a teacher estimate have a causal effect on exam results?

How is an A level teacher able to ‘boost’ results?

What is the evidence that suggests they have done so?

If you have evidence of cheating, shouldn’t you report it?
 
I don’t know if it did, but wouldn’t it make sense for the algorithm to take into account how well the cohort did at GCSE? If there was a better than average GCSE year for a given school, that would be grounds to expect better than average A level results.

In other news, I hear Dominic Raab has been downgraded to Dominic Rbbc.
 
Having now sought to gain a better understanding of the algorithm it seems it was fundamentally biased towards historical results by exam centre. So, on the face of it, statistically makes sense, but... I can’t find any real detail beyond this. Seemingly predicted grades were a lesser criteria other than a) ranked top most in the subject and b) for smaller class sizes, which in all probability biased towards private education other than those ranked top most.

The flaws are patently obvious. The challenge though is what would a fairer system of assessment in these times be? I immediately thought predicted grades but then come around to a question (for which I don’t know the answer) of do exam centres only hand out a certain number of a, b, c and so on grades which will mean that even with predicted grades some will be downgraded, but then on what criteria? Class ranking?

I would not like to have been given the challenge of deriving a fair system!

I do though think the bias towards past results is in itself logical but equally unfair where there is a strong year group in any one school.

What an unholy mess.
 
For God's sake, have a heart! Young people have had their lives turned upside down by the pandemic and have missed out on all the usual celebrations and rites of passage that accompany leaving school. Now, rules they don't understand (does anyone?) are determining their future and, in many cases, ending their dreams of university - especially if they come from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Why not simply accept that "unprecedented times" call for unprecedented charity and compassion? If you're really worried that some "undeserving" pleb might get a place at university well, firstly, I would take a long, hard look at yourself but, secondly, you can always console yourself that the "wheat will be sorted from the chaff" at a later date. I mean, it's not as if a callous, incompetent buffoon could ever rise to a position in government, is it?
 
droodzilla said:
For God's sake, have a heart! Young people have had their lives turned upside down by the pandemic and have missed out on all the usual celebrations and rites of passage that accompany leaving school. Now rules they don't understand (does anyone?) are determining their future and, in many cases, ending their dreams of university - especially if they come from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Why not simply accept that "unprecedented times" call for unprecedented charity and compassion? If you're really worried that some "undeserving" pleb might get a place at university well, firstly, I would take a long, hard look at yourself but, secondly, you can always console yourself that the "wheat will be sorted from the chaff" at a later date. I mean, it's not as if a callous. incompetent buffoon could ever rise to a position in government, is it?
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Ain't that the truth.
 
I read something on Facebook earlier stating that France has rounded all estimated grades upward and increased university places in an attempt to provide better opportunities across the board for all students. A remarkable contrast to the usual elitist class-warrior shit we get from the Bullingdon Club oafs that run things here.
 
droodzilla said:
For God's sake, have a heart! Young people have had their lives turned upside down by the pandemic and have missed out on all the usual celebrations and rites of passage that accompany leaving school. Now, rules they don't understand (does anyone?) are determining their future and, in many cases, ending their dreams of university - especially if they come from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Why not simply accept that "unprecedented times" call for unprecedented charity and compassion? If you're really worried that some "undeserving" pleb might get a place at university well, firstly, I would take a long, hard look at yourself but, secondly, you can always console yourself that the "wheat will be sorted from the chaff" at a later date. I mean, it's not as if a callous, incompetent buffoon could ever rise to a position in government, is it?
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Great post.
 
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