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To downgrade from Nac 252 to Nac 282 or not ...

Rosewind

Rosewind

Lost in Translation
I wonder if it is a good idea to downgrade from my Naim Nac 252 to Naim Nac 282.I will keep the Supercap. The aim would of course be to free up cash for other kit, including the MDAC2.

Any thoughts as to what I would lose - apart from some money invested originally?

Cheers
Peter
 
You may want review your kit. Its possible to remove the pre-amp and supercap provided that the DAC and any phono stage (if needed) have their own volume control. I was very surprised that removing my preamp gave a better sound.

Just work out how much cash you'd make plus anything else that you may add and look at alternatives. My phono stage and DAC go directly into my power amps via a two way switch.

Cheers,

DV
 
No direct experience of the 252, but I found negative benefit in upgrading my late 82/2xHi to an early 52/52PS so went straight back and sold on the 52/52PS. Having got the 52 on the bench it transpired that in fact there was no electrical difference between it and the 82 if you don't use any powered plug in cards.

I suspect any "loss" might be quite small, particularly if you aren't powering a phono stage directly from the 252.

If you are powering a phono stage then you can easily bodge the sc to power it directly using separate rails rather than allowing the normal 282 compromise of sharing its supply with the input buffer.

The Naim preamp hierarchy is just a really big fiddle, they're all basically the same thing with different power supply and switching options. The 552 does seem to have some additional power supply decoupling and lifts the ground on deselected inputs, but again it's mostly the same thing and certainly not worth the money.
 
Darth Vader said:
You may want review your kit. Its possible to remove the pre-amp and supercap provided that the DAC and any phono stage (if needed) have their own volume control. I was very surprised that removing my preamp gave a better sound.

Just work out how much cash you'd make plus anything else that you may add and look at alternatives. My phono stage and DAC go directly into my power amps via a two way switch.

Cheers,

DV
Click to expand...

Taking the pre-amp out is not in the cards until I have tested the MDAC2 versus the pre. I also need my wife to have a listen. Then I may very well sell on the Nac 282 + Supercap to fund some new speakers (or a holiday).

I hope that I can dispense with a pre, but I am not counting on it.

Best wishes,
Peter
 
You're a better man than I, Gunga Din, if you can downgrade without changing horses. Rather doubt the financial gain would be worth the candle either. Beg, borrow or steal, but downgrade ye not !:)
 
Mike Reed said:
You're a better man than I, Gunga Din, if you can downgrade without changing horses. Rather doubt the financial gain would be worth the candle either. Beg, borrow or steal, but downgrade ye not !:)
Click to expand...
I was afraid of getting that answer. I would like to avoid borrowing begging stealing, if possible.
Peter
 
Rosewind said:
Taking the pre-amp out is not in the cards until I have tested the MDAC2 versus the pre. I also need my wife to have a listen. Then I may very well sell on the Nac 282 + Supercap to fund some new speakers (or a holiday).

I hope that I can dispense with a pre, but I am not counting on it.

Best wishes,
Peter
Click to expand...

What would you get for a 252 and supercap? A s/h Weiss DAC202 will set you back £3500 and no pre amp is needed. Also the Weiss is about the size of a Hicap so think of the space you'll save on the rack. I have my phono stage, Mac Mini and Weiss all on one shelf - neat and with WAF.

There are at least two of us pfm members who plug their Weiss straight into the amplifier without a pre.

Cheers,

DV
 
+1 for dumping the pre. Taking out the Grad1/TPX2 and running a Linn ADS straight into the power amp was a noticeable upgrade.

//Piers
 
If you like the sound of Naim, then using a Dac other than Naim as a pre even into a Naim power amp will not give you what you want. I tried a Chord Hugo straight into a Nap160 and it was not a success. Most of what i like about Naim is in the pre amp. I'd not bother trying to downgrade to a 282/SC2, there's hardly any money in it. If you really want to get better value, sell it and buy a 72, or try something different altogether.
 
Not sure I'd bother going from a 252 to a 282 as financially I don't think you'd gain enough.
If you can live without the multiple inputs & remote facility of the 252/282, a 2nd hand Avondale Grad1 pre might make sense or an earlier Naim pre eg the 72.
Leap of faith alternatives such as completely changing from Naim to a.n.other is a bigger step but for me it proved immensely satisfying. The new Arcam A49 amp is causing quite a stir from people who previously have never rated the brand, for instance.
 
OTOH both Nac 252 & 282 s/h prices seeing one way only currently, down down down while serviced 52 are keeping steady, I know what I would choose if not 72 based then 52 based, allthough they deserve something better than MDAC's
 
Yes two things work against my project:
(1) There is only a price difference of £1670 between the price of Nac 252 and of Nac 282 when new.
(2) S/H Naim prices seem to be going down a lot

Best choice is probably to trade the Nac 252 in for a better speaker than I have now.
Peter
 
Hi Rosewind
A slightly controversial opinion perhaps, but I have yet to hear a 252 that floated my boat in any system, and I've heard 3 different 252s in 2 different Naim dealers.

As one or two others have already said, if you stay in the Naim fold, then a NAC72 powered by a supercap is a tremendous pre-amp, while I went from a 32.5/Hicap to a 52/Supercap, preferring this by quite a margin over either a 282/SC or a 252/SC in a system of all Naim electronics.

Hope this helps, FT
 
Consider a used Rega Osiris, you will free up a lot more $$ and might be surprised. I used to own a 52/SC/135s, the money I pulled out of the pre/amp combo was used to improve my TT source (LP12 -> TW Raven/Tron combo).
 
I also took a 52/Scap out altogether and went direct from an Icon ps3 Phono stage to a Nap 250 as the Icon has a volume control and I don't use anything other then a TT in the main system. Sounded better to me than through the 52 but in the end valves irritated me and in retrospect I should have used a Brinkmann Fein.

If/when Jez Arkless makes a posh phono pre-amp with a volume control the pre/hi cap will be down the road again- no cost upgrade.
 
You can pick up a s/h 282 for £1500-£2000. 252's go for 3k plus.
I have a 282 and have heard quite a few 252. 252 is more mature, clearer, way more detailed, more hifi. 282 by comparison sounds grainer but has more boogie factor and drive (only because the 252 brings so many other things to the table).
I see some have talked about a grad one. I had one when pfm was going crazy about them a few years back. It was fine, very natural but I prefered the naim style better and once I got my hands on a second hand 282, well frankly, there was no comparison. The 282 was like someone opening a window, to me, a lot better.
How about teddy pardo's Pre? I believe he based this on bettering a 52. It comes with a power supply that needs no re-cap so, you could sell the super cap and not worry about naim's Servicing costs to boot. You can dem it to on a return basis. Whether it's as good as a 252....
 
Had an 82, a 52 and a 252. The 252 was much better than the rest.
I'd go for either no pre amp or 252.
Can't see how a less good pre amp will help in any way at all.
 
If the aim is to free up money how about this:

Get a 72, instal the Ryan Sound Lab boards which in total will cost you around £700.

It makes for a superb pre amp, retains the Naim sound and is comparable to a 52.

Or, free up a ton of money and get a Nait 2!
 
Peter

I think it would be a mistake to go from the 252 to the 282. I went the other way from 282/250.2 to 252/300. I was never really convinced by the 282 it just didn't shine but the 252 does. It's quite an upgrade much more I thought than the 250.2 to 300. I think as others have said that there are better pre's than the 282 for the money but you should really hear them with your system first.
 
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