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Thoughts on a Rega Vs a Gyro SE?

Frankly i am amazed that so many comparisons between turntables are being made that are just not valid . A strict A/B test is almost impossible to do , same place identical setup same arm , same cartridge same shelf , same place on shelf etc etc [ N.B actual same not just same make and model ]. My opinion---- if you like it , buy it and keep it and enjoy it .
 
My view too John, the OP should either seek out dems assuming it’s still possible as it used to be or buy something they like, live with it and maybe change later if something else is heard and preferred. Cartridge aside given their consumable nature, as Tony always says if they buy the deck and arm used it’s not going to cost a lot to change later.

personally when I came back to vinyl I did not want an SME again, Notts Analogue were scarce and expensive, Gyros expensive too and with fond memories of a P9 at home for a weekend years ago I bought a used RP10. It’s immensely enjoyable and my taste is clearly different to Mr Pig for example, if one day I think it’s the weakest link and funds allow I’ll try others and I’ll be open minded if so.
 
Maybe in the sound department, but definitely not in the looks department imo. It looses all its beauty once you put the massive Orbe platter on it.

Mrs. B. cannot be in the same room as my Gyro SE when it's on as the rotating platter weights give her motion sickness. You would think this would be a perfect opportunity for me to go for an Orbe platter/bearing upgrade but I can't bring myself to do it - I love the spinny weights too much!
 
Mrs. B. cannot be in the same room as my Gyro SE when it's on as the rotating platter weights give her motion sickness. You would think this would be a perfect opportunity for me to go for an Orbe platter/bearing upgrade but I can't bring myself to do it - I love the spinny weights too much!

They were one of the reasons I moved on from mine, i found myself more interested in observing their motion than listening to music
 
You should try one..

Why?

I don't like the direction Rega are going with their top end decks so why struggle to get along with them when I can just..ignore them? I like the LP12, it's still in production after fifty years so I think a lot of people do, so why can't I just be content with what I have? I've heard the P10 a couple of times by the way.

They were one of the reasons I moved on from mine, I found myself more interested in observing their motion than listening to music

I think the Giro looks really cool but while I love the spinning weights I do think it would annoy me if I lived with one. It's stood the test of time though and still looks good today.
 
Mrs. B. cannot be in the same room as my Gyro SE when it's on as the rotating platter weights give her motion sickness. You would think this would be a perfect opportunity for me to go for an Orbe platter/bearing upgrade but I can't bring myself to do it - I love the spinny weights too much!
Exactly! The spinny weights make the deck!
 
I think at the level you are discussion, decks are pretty much sorted out, so the differences in the rest of the hardware and system become more relevant than the spiny around bit. So, if one of them catches your eye and would give you joy every time you see it, this is the right choice. The boring bits (which arm/cartridge/wiring/preamp/ etc etc) will totally change the sound, but the basic locks are the deck, so go for aesthetics when choosing.

(and for completeness i've a gyro/nima/kontrapunkt which i've had for 15 years or so)
 
Why?

I don't like the direction Rega are going with their top end decks so why struggle to get along with them when I can just..ignore them? I like the LP12, it's still in production after fifty years so I think a lot of people do, so why can't I just be content with what I have? I've heard the P10 a couple of times by the way.

Rega is one of only a few company's that has stayed honest to their core Hi-Fi beliefs over the years IMO, the "direction" that Rega has taken with their clean sheet designs on their "top decks" was big a big risk to take on because the look of them is so out of the norm and many people simply don't like change. Rega R&D, prototyped and produced a funky new design because it musically sounded better and what it looks like is a product of that R&D and material choices at their disposal and final retail price points to consider to remain competitive in the market and as a result we have the new P8 & P10, IMO (2) of the most revolutionary new turntables to come to the market in years. So, you go on and continue to enjoy your fundamentally flawed 50 year old turntable design along with it's dozens of very expensive Bandaid fixes over the years in an attempt to make the LP12 sound more musical, and -lets be honest here- Linn's way to get that LP12 customer back to the shop every year or so with the hopes you drop some more serious coin on their grossly overpriced upgrades & products, now that's absolutely brilliant marketing. You think Linn can't build a completely new deck? ...Of course they can, but it's more profitable for them to find a reason to "improve" the product you are already heavily invested in indefinitely bit by bit by bit until you basically have a new deck, but in the end it's still a fundamentally 50 year old design which still concludes with those always hovering questions of it's current state of adjustment in your home after a year or two because something sounds off, and of course that too gets you back into the shop again too. So please, go on and tell me more about "Regas" "Direction" and how it makes you "struggle" so ?
 
So, you go on and continue to enjoy your fundamentally flawed 50 year old turntable design along with it's dozens of very expensive Bandaid fixes...

Are you unable to read or is it the comprehension that you struggle with? I said:

I'm afraid we're just going to have to disagree

As I really don't see the point in going round in circles forever debating the pros and cons of one record player vs another.

I agree that Rega are a great, innovative company. The best Hi-Fi company in the UK in my opinion. I also agree that the LP12 is flawed, but then all turntables are. I agree that Linn upgrades are ridiculously overpriced, which is why I don't buy them. I also understand your eulogy to the P10. You could say exactly the same things about the RP10 and in fact I did not so long ago.

But the problem you have here is that I don't give a shit. I don't buy equipment because I like the company who make it, because it is new or technically advanced, because I like the look of it. I buy it, or rather keep it, because it moves me emotionally and lets me understand the intentions of the artists better. I don't care that the design of the LP12 is old, that I'm not a big fan of the company who make it. The music sounds right. More organic, more rhythmically correct and has realistic tonality, if you want to get technical about it. Yes, the RP10 has fantastic speed stability but the LP12 tells me more about micro timing cues. And the P10 is just further down the same direction.

And I'm not alone. Years ago a few people were raving about the P9, I'd never heard one, but friends said it was impressive but sounded 'wrong'. I know a very prominent and very old Linn, Naim Rega dealer who stocks all of Rega's products but won't sell the top turntables because they dislike them. I know another dealer who said that they sell hardly any of the Regas because when they do the dem the customer buys the LP12 virtually every time.

Some people actually like the LP12 and don't like the big Regas. Deal with it. It's nothing personal. It's certainly nothing against Rega, who I love to bits. I just don't like the same record player as you.
 
Are you unable to read or is it the comprehension that you struggle with? I said:



As I really don't see the point in going round in circles forever debating the pros and cons of one record player vs another.

I agree that Rega are a great, innovative company. The best Hi-Fi company in the UK in my opinion. I also agree that the LP12 is flawed, but then all turntables are. I agree that Linn upgrades are ridiculously overpriced, which is why I don't buy them. I also understand your eulogy to the P10. You could say exactly the same things about the RP10 and in fact I did not so long ago.

But the problem you have here is that I don't give a shit. I don't buy equipment because I like the company who make it, because it is new or technically advanced, because I like the look of it. I buy it, or rather keep it, because it moves me emotionally and lets me understand the intentions of the artists better. I don't care that the design of the LP12 is old, that I'm not a big fan of the company who make it. The music sounds right. More organic, more rhythmically correct and has realistic tonality, if you want to get technical about it. Yes, the RP10 has fantastic speed stability but the LP12 tells me more about micro timing cues. And the P10 is just further down the same direction.

And I'm not alone. Years ago a few people were raving about the P9, I'd never heard one, but friends said it was impressive but sounded 'wrong'. I know a very prominent and very old Linn, Naim Rega dealer who stocks all of Rega's products but won't sell the top turntables because they dislike them. I know another dealer who said that they sell hardly any of the Regas because when they do the dem the customer buys the LP12 virtually every time.

Some people actually like the LP12 and don't like the big Regas. Deal with it. It's nothing personal. It's certainly nothing against Rega, who I love to bits. I just don't like the same record player as you.

It's not about me trying to get you to like what I like. ...But it seems almost every time I read a post referring to turntables here on Pinkfish these days you -and a few others here and there- seem to have this need to pass remarks such as: "I would not walk past an LP12 to get to any of them." -post No.6 in this thread BTW- within the first few reply posts and honestly it's exhausting and makes me wonder if you're trying to convince others or you're just trying to convince yourself of your own purchases/choices.

Well, now I'll be the guy with years of personal experience with personal LP12's -including friends LP12's in various states of build- and some other decks including the P10 that wants to "respond" to you when you add some quick , sideways remark about how wonderful you think the LP12 is. My feeling is you make these posts thinking little about them & what you say, hope for a dozen or so "Likes" and move on with no friction from other members, because I'm sure you feel that everyone Loves the LP12, it's an institution after all. Well now I'm stepping up to be a voice that has a "different" opinion about the LP12 in response, and I choose to voice it. And your last post sounded a little angry BTW.

Again, you brought the question up, so I will be the guy that responds.
Now let me add something about dealers that sell Linn & Rega products, they will sell you a Rega if the customer demands it, or if the customers kid needs something, or maybe for a "spare room" set up after the customer has already bought in with a Linn main system. But no Linn dealer worth their salt really want's to sell you any Rega products, it a dead end for the "dealer", period, and a Linn dealer has very little to offer 99.9% of the average people that walks past their shop, so repeat business is their business. There are really no profitable "upgrade" paths after a Rega sale like there is for Linn products, and Regas need very little maintenance/specialty services or set up that the shop can bill for. The business model for any Linn dealer is to first, by some miracle, get you into their shop and then to get you into a LP12 -or what ever Linn product- and thus into Linns very expensive and never ending "upgrade" path. Rega's can be also bought on some OnLine shops, sometimes at a discount, Linn LP12's can not be bought on line, need to be professionally assembled -for the most part- and very rarely are had at a discount. Linn dealers do not want to bother dealing with/or competing with OnLine shops.

And you know as well as I do that concerning a shop A/B Demo, the dealer/owner knows exactly how to "sway" a demo any way they like, this is "any" dealer FWIW, not just a Linn dealer.

And I wholeheartedly disagree -with all due respect- with your statement that "The music -Produced by the LP12- sounds right. More organic, more rhythmically correct and has realistic tonality, and that the "LP12 tells me more about micro timing cues" All absolutely FALSE when compared to the P10, on all points IMO, I know, you have your own opinions though. ...But Perhaps compared to the RP10 this is somewhat true, I can't say.

And yes, like what you like and I will like what I like, and let others decide for themselves by doing A-B's of their own. ...But when you say something like "I would not walk past an LP12 to get to any of them" well, that kinda sounds like you are the one trying to get someone to like what "you" like, just say'in..
 
Surprise surprise the 'I own an X, it's the best thing ever and pisses all over your Y' people are out in force. OP, don't rely on wordy reviews from owners who are justifying their own spends, get out there and listen to as much kit as you can - it's the only way.
 
And I wholeheartedly disagree -with all due respect- with your statement that "The music -Produced by the LP12- sounds right. More organic, more rhythmically correct and has realistic tonality, and that the "LP12 tells me more about micro timing cues" All absolutely FALSE when compared to the P10, on all points IMO

Writing as an ex-LP12 owner and current P10 owner, I would agree with this wholeheartedly. It is precisely because the P10 is more capable of extracting an accurate facsimile of the original recording, whilst adding little of its own colouration, that it seems to connect me more closely with the music. I do understand why some like the old LP12 coloured sound (I have read Mr Pig's Linn build posts and it seems that his LP12 is similar to this older Linn type), but accurate it ain't. It doesn't mean that one can't own and enjoy an LP12, of course one can, but to suggest that Rega are going in the wrong direction, when they are actually engineering innovative TTs that reproduce music accurately, is simply wrong.

On the subject of Linn dealers that also sell Rega, well, I bought my P10 from such a dealer who privately admitted that the P10 was most likely a musically more accurate deck than any LP12, with the possible exception of one so heavily modified (at great expense) that it really was no longer an LP12.
 
Why?

I don't like the direction Rega are going with their top end decks so why struggle to get along with them when I can just..ignore them? I like the LP12, it's still in production after fifty years so I think a lot of people do, so why can't I just be content with what I have? I've heard the P10 a couple of times by the way.

I suggested you try one because you might enjoy it. Of course you can be content with what you have, all I was saying is that you might also enjoy a P10 (I didn't know that you had heard one). I wasn't suggesting that you should necessarily replace your LP12 with a P10, more that you might like the P10 and add one to your system.
 
The LP12 is the best deck in the entire Galaxy for sure,
but apart from that it's probably not entirely inappropriate to remember the thread title at least
every once in a while.
I found the original thread quite interesting, particularly that the Gyro SE is holding it's own quite well even today.
And if it has to be off-topic, I'd prefer something like P10 vs. WT
to 'Guardians of the LP12' Part 753..
 
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From what I’ve read about the P10 my guess it would sound about the same as a WT Amadeus GTa. They are both very neutral turntables. I had over 20 years of fun with my LP 12 ending with Circus Ekos/Arkiv and Lingo 2 but in the end I needed the neutrality because I felt the LP 12 worked brilliantly with some types of music and not so well with others.
I would also guess that the newest version of the LP12 would also sound pretty much the same as a WT or P10 it can’t not do otherwise someone’s buggered up the design.
It’s a bit like the eternal wire debate unless you are deliberately designing a sound in and you are not building to a price point it has to sound pretty much the same. (assuming the same cart and phono stage)
 
From what I’ve read about the P10 my guess it would sound about the same as a WT Amadeus GTa. They are both very neutral turntables. I had over 20 years of fun with my LP 12 ending with Circus Ekos/Arkiv and Lingo 2 but in the end I needed the neutrality because I felt the LP 12 worked brilliantly with some types of music and not so well with others.
I would also guess that the newest version of the LP12 would also sound pretty much the same as a WT or P10 it can’t not do otherwise someone’s buggered up the design.
It’s a bit like the eternal wire debate unless you are deliberately designing a sound in and you are not building to a price point it has to sound pretty much the same.

Funny you say that, as I was just about a little journey in my mind, what if you went through the hassle of arranging a shootout of both those not exactly cheap decks with identical carts & all.
And you'd discover you cannot make out a difference...would you be disappointed ?
More a philosophical question regarding the true motivations behind such search.
Possibly in the end it comes down to the question which kind of style you'd rather like to live with
than big sq differences.
Then saw your post, suggesting excactly that...nice.. :)
 
Funny you say that, as I was just about a little journey in my mind, what if you went through the hassle of arranging a shootout of both those not exactly cheap decks with identical carts & all.
And you'd discover you cannot make out a difference...would you be disappointed ?
More a philosophical question regarding the true motivations behind such search.
Possibly in the end it comes down to the question which kind of style you'd rather like to live with
than big sq differences.
Then saw your post, suggesting excactly that...nice.. :)
It's the not knowing that kills audiophiles....what if? If I was spending a few thousand on a turntable that would be in situ for the foreseeable future then I'd be very keen to at least hear two of the three back to back. Chances are they'll all sound similar, which goes against what some of the more partisan owners would like us to believe.
 


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