Thorens TD-124 tonearms, arm boards and isolation?

[Hook]

Has anyone here tried arm boards made from something other than wood? A quick search suggests there are lots of possibilities: acrylic, corian, panzerholtz, and so on. Perhaps a multi-layered wood and metal board? All claim to be better than solid wood, but am curious if anyone has found this to be true.

Also, any thoughts on using washers (e.g., epdm rubber, phenolic or neoprene) to isolate the arm board from the chassis?

Lastly, am currently using a Royal GM Mk II SPU with the Ortofon RMG-212 tonearm that came originally with my TD-124 Mk I (1958). Everything sounds good, but I suspect the tonearm may be the weakest link. Have been looking at more modern high-mass 9” tonearms, and see some good options from Ortofon and Jelco. Are there other manufacturers I should be looking at? I want to stick with using an SPU on a 9” arm.

Thanks!

 

[Tony L]

My standard board is a Schopper wood one, which costs more than it should but is fine. I recently tried a Swissonor decoupled Panzerholtz board and didn’t like it at all, in fact it’s up for grabs if anyone else wants to try it (they were crazy expensive new, though I didn’t pay much for this one (its a SME cut)).

I have to admit I’m fed up with “tweaking” classic vintage kit as just about everything I’ve tried or heard just moves things away from what makes the thing such a well respected design in the first place. I’ve come to the firm conclusion that Thorens, Tannoy, Leak, Quad etc knew *exactly* what they were doing and to give expensive internet ‘experts’ a wide berth! Certainly my experience with my TD-124 is every expensive boutique part I’ve removed and replaced with a mint original one has improved it! I made a lot of errors along the way, but finally have a truly nice example of this classic deck. I really should start selling off some of my spares stash!

 

[starbuck]

Certainly my experience with my TD-124 is every expensive boutique part I’ve removed and replaced with a mint original one has improved it! I made a lot of errors along the way, but finally have a truly nice example of this classic deck.

Out of interest, Tony, and apologies to the OP for the off topic, are you still using the Hanze motor springs or have you reverted to original parts there, too?

Happy New Year!

 

[Tony L]

Out of interest, Tony, and apologies to the OP for the off topic, are you still using the Hanze motor springs or have you reverted to original parts there, too?

Yes, they are rather good IMO, and his belt remains my favourite. I do still have a fair amount of third party stuff in my deck; a Schopper main bearing (which I’d likely sell as I have a very tidy original as a spare now), a Swissonor top-platter as my original wasn’t as flat as I’d like. The Swissonor isn’t perfect ether, but it is a lot better. The bargain third-party stuff is from Audio Silente IMO, superb quality and entirely lacking any absurd boutique price tag. I have a full set of their sintered bushings installed in my deck and use their rubber mushrooms too (which again are just right). The Schopper arm boad is very nice, it just costs about twice what one would expect!

The noise problem with my deck was always the belt. The Schopper one (at least my example) is just hopeless IMO, and given it cost about £35, was touted as the best ever etc, I assumed it was of good quality. I wasted so much time and money blaming other parts of the deck when the bottom line was that belt was just too tight and sheds rubber in a highly noisy way. So much of the third-party stuff for this deck really is junk IMHO. Another example being the crazy expensive black iron platter; the inside idler track having obvious finish imperfections on my example that could easily be heard as rumble. Just absurd on such an expensive product - they actually suggested I sand it smooth, so I sent it back for a refund instead! The original green iron one sounds just the same and is way better made. It is no coincidence that Thorens precisely machined that part! In some ways I feel bad about criticising these companies as I respect those who support the classic audio scene, but I’d not want to see others waste money on what is at heart a fabulous turntable that really only needs to be in proper working condition to deliver the goods.

 

[Hook]

Thanks for the replies Tony. As you probably guessed, it was the $350 Schopper panzerholz arm board with embedded rubber decouplers that started me thinking. Interesting to hear that you did not like it. Was there anything particular about how it changed the sound that you recall? Decoupling, at least in theory, would seem to make sense! As it appears that it is only available for SME mounting, that also got me thinking about tonearm alternatives.

A couple of weeks ago, I started hearing some distortion with my RMG-212, especially on high notes from trumpet and sax. Also heard an occasional burst of a "tearing paper" sound. Yesterday after I posted, I finally removed my tone arm, had a look around, removed and reattached the balancing spring, and reset VTF to 3g. No clue if that was the cause of the high note distortion, but it now appears to be gone! Am thinking that the "tearing paper" sound might have been a bit of RF breakthrough, but that is now gone too.

Of course, "what if" questions remain and I would like, someday, to try a different tonearm. I have a fixed headshell SME 3009 Improved (s/n 127443 with a Shure SME badge). No use for my SPU of course, but maybe a M2-9R might be worth a go?

Or perhaps I should just leave well enough alone!

 

[Stuart Frazer]

Thread resurrection as I am looking into TD124 tonearm boards.

@Hook what Tonearm board did you end up going with?

@Tony L It's interesting that you didn't get on with the expensive decoupled Schopper Panzerholz?

Any other experiences?

 

[Tony L]

One thing I have learned is the tension of the three armboard screws makes a very big difference to the sound. Just gently screwed down until they stop sounds best to my ears with a more open and natural balance. Definitely one to play with; listen to everything between the board actually rattling around loose through to being very firmly screwed down. You will find the right zone by ear. It is very obvious IMO, it really does have a big impact, and as ever ‘tight is not right’ for me.

I remain perfectly happy with the standard Schopper board. I don’t think it has any magical properties, and it is expensive. It is very nicely finished, though I’m not sure what the actual board material is. I also have an original 60s perspex SME one, but I prefer the Schopper (or Stereo Lab plywood which I also have) to it.

The Swissonor panzerholz was an annoying design IMO as it wasn’t possible to use it without using the rubber decoupling grommets due to the way the 3009 needed bolting to it (the back outside nut beneath the board fouled the 124 frame, whereas the normal wood screws of a standard board obviously don’t, i.e. it needed to sit proud which is where the grommets and washers came in). As such I have no opinion on panzerholz as a material, I just didn’t like the sound of that particular board design (it sucked the life and musical drive for me).

PS As an update to my earlier post it is only fair to point out that Swissonor have altered the design and manufacturing of their replacement sub-platter, and in doing so have completely addressed the issue I had. My comments upthread certainly do not apply to the current version and it is only fair to point that out.

 

[Hook]

Thread resurrection as I am looking into TD124 tonearm boards.

@Hook what Tonearm board did you end up going with?

@Tony L It's interesting that you didn't get on with the expensive decoupled Schopper Panzerholz?

Any other experiences?

Am still using the original hardwood board that came with the deck and Ortofon arm.

If I switch arms, it will likely be to a Groovemaster III.

I also see that Schopper has replaced their original Panzerholz boards with a new phenolic composite, so may try that.