Thorens TD-124/II restoration / upgrade
- Thread starter Tony L
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- idler drive sme 3009 td-124 thorens
Tony L
Administrator
I'm not very electrically literate, so I've always kind of struggled with that as I don't really see why it's different to a mains block. Is this what you mean:
Live and neutral each going to the appropriate half of the lamp and then on to the deck? As I say I don't see how that's different to an in-line 4 or 6 way mains block.
PS at a crazy price I bought a NOS idler from eBay, and the deck is now running very noticeably quieter - I suspect that whilst the tyre on my existing idler was in great shape the bronze bearing was a bit worn and loose.
Whilst listening to my 401 today Im thinking the motor may need a strip again as its not passing the ear/screwdriver test - Im not sure it was ever expected too - At the same I can stick in the German spindle ball bearing upgrade thingy I have had parked for ages. I will spin the deck minus the power supply before hand to see which is what
I refuse to go the lava lamp route!
Unless it has as much effect as a new power cord from RA
I refuse to go the lava lamp route!
Unless it has as much effect as a new power cord from RA
I'm not very electrically literate, so I've always kind of struggled with that as I don't really see why it's different to a mains block. Is this what you mean:
Live and neutral each going to the appropriate half of the lamp and then on to the deck? As I say I don't see how that's different to an in-line 4 or 6 way mains block.
Tony, what you've shown there amounts to a parallel connection, not the series connection Paul is on about.
Basically you want to have the lamp filament in series with the TT motor. If you think of the fuse in the plug, that's in series with the motor. You just need to break into the 'live' motor feed somewhere convenient and attach the lamp 'live' to one side and the lamp 'neutral' to the other side of the break.
Comprende?
Mr Tibbs
Tony L
Administrator
hairyderriere
pfm Member
This is a fascinating thread.
Anyway, I am under the impression that Swissonor also builds or at least has built a rather nice power supply for the TD 124 - as per the attached picture. I guess it would also be rather expensive.
Br,
Teme
Hi Teme,
I don't see that on their website. Where did you get the photo?
Teme
Retrophile
Hi,
I spotted it on a Swedish audio forum. Here's a link to the thread (the picture in question is in post #224): http://www.euphonia-audioforum.se/forums/index.php?showtopic=8613&st=210
Br,
Teme
hairyderriere
pfm Member
Thanks Teme.
Tony L
Administrator
Time for a quick progress update: the replacement Shopper bearing is in and working fine and the deck as a whole is working pretty well and certainly sounds very good. The only area I feel is still needing some attention is the step pulley, which is certainly the prime noise source on this deck now I've replaced the idler (the new one is way, way better). The step-pully runs fairly quietly as long as it's bearing holds oil, which unfortunately is not very long as it just leaks out of the bottom and ends up in a pool on the wall shelf. There's another small pool under the Shopper main bearing, so better people than I can't make these things oil-tight either... old decks, don't ya just love 'em! I should be able to fix the latter with a light smear of grease on the gasket next time I can be arsed stripping the deck right down, but the step-pulley bearing is more of a problem. I'm on the lookout for another step-pulley, ideally I'd like to find one in true NOS condition.
I've not got round to trying the lightbulb trick yet – I want to build a mains block type affair for that, e.g. a simple plug-board with two sockets, one wired in series with the other – it has to be the neatest way of doing this, though I've yet to find a suitable two-way donor board. I want something like a two-way version of the old grey Music Works 6-way block, i.e. something I can just screw a pair of standard single 13 amp mains sockets to. I'm expecting this to make quite a radical difference as the step-pulley noise is unquestionably connected to my having to use the eddy-current brake almost full-on to slow the deck down to the correct speed. When allowed to run with the brake at it's lowest setting the drive mechanism is all but silent, though it's probably going round at about 36rpm!
I've not got round to trying the lightbulb trick yet – I want to build a mains block type affair for that, e.g. a simple plug-board with two sockets, one wired in series with the other – it has to be the neatest way of doing this, though I've yet to find a suitable two-way donor board. I want something like a two-way version of the old grey Music Works 6-way block, i.e. something I can just screw a pair of standard single 13 amp mains sockets to. I'm expecting this to make quite a radical difference as the step-pulley noise is unquestionably connected to my having to use the eddy-current brake almost full-on to slow the deck down to the correct speed. When allowed to run with the brake at it's lowest setting the drive mechanism is all but silent, though it's probably going round at about 36rpm!
Shuggie
Trade: Ammonite Audio
Martin Bastin advised me to use Hylomar Universal Blue gasket compound to seal the stepped pulley bearing well. I've not actually used it yet, but it stays elastic. My main bearing leaked oil until I bought a bronze end cap from Jim Campbell in the states - now it seals perfectly and probably runs better too.
Tony L
Administrator
That sounds like a good idea, I'll get some of that sealant. I've actually got a bronze bearing end-cap sitting in my ever-growing box of TD-124 bits. I'm reluctant to conceptually alter the Schopper bearing, but if I can't get a good seal with a smear of grease next time I can be bothered to disembowel the deck I'll give it a go. The platter spin-down time is amazing with the new bearing, I've never seen anything like it, must be three minutes or so from 33 rpm!
Strange Brew
pfm Member
Hi Tony.
What can I say.. superb matey.
As you know I had mine refurbished by Schopper and can vouch for the quality of the parts.
I'd love to get the new platter & bearing... maybe some day. It's quite simply the best deck I've ever had.
What can I say.. superb matey.
As you know I had mine refurbished by Schopper and can vouch for the quality of the parts.
I'd love to get the new platter & bearing... maybe some day. It's quite simply the best deck I've ever had.
Strange Brew
pfm Member
BTW Tony.
I asked Juerg (Schopper) about the main bearing leaking oil. This is normal apparently so don't worry about it because the bushings are self lubricating. (Sintered)
I asked Juerg (Schopper) about the main bearing leaking oil. This is normal apparently so don't worry about it because the bushings are self lubricating. (Sintered)
Tony L
Administrator
The 124/II had it's first proper public outing last night as Richard (Lordsummit) popped round for a curry, so I dragged the 124 through and put it up against the Garrard 301 in the main system.
It gave a good account of itself IMO. Certainly a more gentle / less forceful approach to the world than the 301 / M2-10 / AT33PTG, basically the same traits that can be observed on the needledrop posted earlier. The 124 is more 'stereotypically analogue' I guess, e.g. warmer and more approachable, maybe even a little rose-tinted, whereas my Garrard is really a modern deck that happens to use an vintage motor unit. I'm certain the vast majority of difference observed is down to the plinths arms and carts, rather than being any verdict on the two turntables themselves. It is fascinating to hear just how wonderful a 40+ year old front end can sound (you could have bought a similar 3009 and DL-103 along with the 124/II back in 1965). There is something very 'right' about it.
I rebuilt the 124 yet again on Friday, this time using the Hylomar Universal Blue gasket compound mentioned above to seal the well beneath the step-pulley and I also rebuilt the Shopper bearing with the old Lenco / Garrard trick of a very light smear of grease on the gasket and around the screw holes that hold the bottom plate on just to make it oil-tight. I've also gone back to a slightly thicker oil (Joel's from eBay) just for the step-pulley well as I suspect that is just a little lose on my deck and the thicker oil will help take up any slack - I'm using the Shopper oil everywhere else. I was delighted to find no oil pools / drips at all under the deck when I moved it back into system #2 this morning, so nothing fell out of it after many hours continuous use last night. It's working well so I think I can leave it alone for a while now.
It gave a good account of itself IMO. Certainly a more gentle / less forceful approach to the world than the 301 / M2-10 / AT33PTG, basically the same traits that can be observed on the needledrop posted earlier. The 124 is more 'stereotypically analogue' I guess, e.g. warmer and more approachable, maybe even a little rose-tinted, whereas my Garrard is really a modern deck that happens to use an vintage motor unit. I'm certain the vast majority of difference observed is down to the plinths arms and carts, rather than being any verdict on the two turntables themselves. It is fascinating to hear just how wonderful a 40+ year old front end can sound (you could have bought a similar 3009 and DL-103 along with the 124/II back in 1965). There is something very 'right' about it.
I rebuilt the 124 yet again on Friday, this time using the Hylomar Universal Blue gasket compound mentioned above to seal the well beneath the step-pulley and I also rebuilt the Shopper bearing with the old Lenco / Garrard trick of a very light smear of grease on the gasket and around the screw holes that hold the bottom plate on just to make it oil-tight. I've also gone back to a slightly thicker oil (Joel's from eBay) just for the step-pulley well as I suspect that is just a little lose on my deck and the thicker oil will help take up any slack - I'm using the Shopper oil everywhere else. I was delighted to find no oil pools / drips at all under the deck when I moved it back into system #2 this morning, so nothing fell out of it after many hours continuous use last night. It's working well so I think I can leave it alone for a while now.
Tony L
Administrator
My TD-124/II has just been collected for an all-expenses-paid rehabilitation in sunny Switzerland. I came to the conclusion that making it not sound like a washing machine is beyond my skillset, so off to Schopper it goes for the full works. I'm 95% certain the problem lies in the stepped pulley bushings, which are noticeably slack, and given I have high voltage here (I measured it at 248v last night) I need a lot of eddy-current brake which exacerbates the vibration / noise issue - it runs almost silently if I disable the brake, but obviously far too fast. I'm also pretty certain it's got a very nice condition motor, so I'm sure that will run like a dream with new Schopper bearings etc. It will be nice to eventually get to hear a really maxed-out 124 - this one should be as good as they get on return as I've already got the high-spec main bearing, platters, NOS idler etc. I suspect it will become my main system deck as I just love the look and ergonomics so much.