advertisement


This is getting silly

Status
Not open for further replies.

Whaleblue

Southbound
OK, as you'll all know my recent experiences are telling me "all DACs sound the same".

On Wednesday evening I started to wonder if all pre amps also sound the same. I have the extremely well regarded, and flat as a pancake measuring, Tom Evans Vibe. I also have a Tag McLaren AV32R to add surround capability. Originally I set the system up so that the AV fed the Vibe for front left-right duty, meaning that for 2-ch sources the AV was switched off entirely.

Because the 32 is a pretty good little processor I wondered how much better than the Vibe it would be...

So, to create a mini bake-off for myself I set up as follows.

1. Sonos into 32 via analogue RCA and on to the Vibe via the volume attenuated output of the 32 (as if for surround channel duties).

2. Sonos digital out to Young DAC and DAC direct to Vibe.

So easy AB checking ensued...

Guess what STILL no difference detectable!

A chance visit by Dan K allowed him to hear for himself. Although it was a quick demo, and I think Dan started to question my sanity ( :) ), he certainly wasn't pointing out major differences I'd not noticed.

This might look like an objectivist wind-up, but it's not. The point of the thread is primarily to ask if anyone not too far from me (Wokingham, Berkshire) is happy to demo any kind of similar AB where they can hear a difference I'd really appreciate an invite to come and listen before the Vibe ends up in the classifieds!!!

I'm stumped.
 
Objectivism is one thing, but I googled your Tom Evans Vibe and it's not a cheap unit. If it's not adding £3k of value to your listening experience, I'd sell it!
 
With its Pulse 2 power supply £5k.

That is ultimately the option I might take. But not before I find out if I'm missing something??!!
 
I've found that the value of a "better" unit is not always obvious on quick A/B listening, but becomes more so over extended listening.

I've had the TAG AV32R and liked it, but found that a Young beat it. It wasn't always obvious when comparing, but listening over days it sounded "righter" (!) with the music than the Tag and became the default option. The Tag went, and I haven't missed it, although, like you, I've recently thought of getting one to do the rear channels for my Primare BP32.

The difference between the Young and the Primare, now that was obvious, though ! I still can't believe what it's doing for my CD collection. I listened again to one of my first CDs last night, a 1982 EMI Reflexe recording by the Taverner Consort of Monteverdi's "Salve morale et spirituale". Sublime.
 
Vital

if you're not hearing differences in DACs and now you inform us that you are not hearing differences in your amplifications, am wondering if you're just barking up the wrong tree.

at this point, sell your expensive gear get yourself modest, well built components and concentrate on the music

what is the point of these threads you start? what are you looking to get from the responses and comments?
 
Beware of any quick-fire switching while music is playing. Your brain will only pick up tonal changes, if any.

It is better to replay the exact same passage of music via each component. That way you at least stand a chance of hearing how each component is reproducing the music and not just the noise.

At DAC bake-off III we will not be doing quick-fire switching.
 
Beware of any quick-fire switching while music is playing. Your brain will only pick up tonal changes, if any.

It is better to replay the exact same passage of music via each component. That way you at least stand a chance of hearing how each component is reproducing the music and not just the noise.

At DAC bake-off III we will not be doing quick-fire switching.

I concur generally, it's more about how your interest is heald by music playing vis wanting to go to the pub (do the shopping, lausndry, or what ever). Double blind is not all it's cracked up to be IMO.
 
This might look like an objectivist wind-up, but it's not. The point of the thread is primarily to ask if anyone not too far from me (Wokingham, Berkshire) is happy to demo any kind of similar AB where they can hear a difference I'd really appreciate an invite to come and listen before the Vibe ends up in the classifieds!!!

I'm stumped.

what is the point of these threads you start? what are you looking to get from the responses and comments?

Not clear?
 
Beware of any quick-fire switching while music is playing. Your brain will only pick up tonal changes, if any.

Steven, in an earlier thread I think you mentioned that you knew of things you could do to mask differences. Were you referring to kit of demo technique?
 
If you get a decent TT and a Mac Mini, say, with good speakers and a good room, the bits in the middle matter very little and can be done well enough for little money.
 
Steven, in an earlier thread I think you mentioned that you knew of things you could do to mask differences. Were you referring to kit of demo technique?

Both.

I have tried to kid myself that DAC direct to power was as good as via the pre. I failed and therefore could not become a couple of grand better off.
 
Vital

if you're not hearing differences in DACs and now you inform us that you are not hearing differences in your amplifications, am wondering if you're just barking up the wrong tree.

at this point, sell your expensive gear get yourself modest, well built components and concentrate on the music

what is the point of these threads you start? what are you looking to get from the responses and comments?

Objectivism is ultimately rooted in being a skinflint. There is a strong penny-pinching culture on this site.
 
Vital

you could have dispensed with the preamble and ran with 'i've got expensive gear, and am not sure if i'm hearing what i should/want to be hearing and i want to engage forum members in an exercise to help me make a decision on whether or not i should put them up for sale in the classifieds'

i just find it puzzling that someone in an online audio/music forum would start threads where they first don't hear differences in DACs and then in Amplification?

And what about your sample numbers? How many people have to come over and hear/not hear a difference for your position to be validated/invalidated?

At the end of the day it is YOUR ears, and your system. Consensus building around subjective input is at best a minefield.
 
David,

I could have, but generally I think it's better to ask the inevitable questions that would have followed straight after posting what you suggest.

Not quite sure why you're puzzled. This is a genuine request for help/advice or whatever.

To answer your specific question, I've had five PFMers listen to my system.

Finally, I'm not looking to build consensus, I'm looking to personally hear differences in someone else's system with a view to establishing if there's something wrong with mine.

I'm not sure why you appear to have taken umbrage? Apologies if that's not the case, but your posts' intent is not clear to me. The problem with written (in particular on forum) words I suspect.

Ian
 
You could pop over to mine.

I can play you my NAC 72 with two sets of gain boards, I can tell the difference very easily as can others.
 
OK, as you'll all know my recent experiences are telling me "all DACs sound the same".

On Wednesday evening I started to wonder if all pre amps also sound the same. I have the extremely well regarded, and flat as a pancake measuring, Tom Evans Vibe. I also have a Tag McLaren AV32R to add surround capability. Originally I set the system up so that the AV fed the Vibe for front left-right duty, meaning that for 2-ch sources the AV was switched off entirely.

Because the 32 is a pretty good little processor I wondered how much better than the Vibe it would be...

So, to create a mini bake-off for myself I set up as follows.

1. Sonos into 32 via analogue RCA and on to the Vibe via the volume attenuated output of the 32 (as if for surround channel duties).

2. Sonos digital out to Young DAC and DAC direct to Vibe.

So easy AB checking ensued...

Guess what STILL no difference detectable!

A chance visit by Dan K allowed him to hear for himself. Although it was a quick demo, and I think Dan started to question my sanity ( :) ), he certainly wasn't pointing out major differences I'd not noticed.

This might look like an objectivist wind-up, but it's not. The point of the thread is primarily to ask if anyone not too far from me (Wokingham, Berkshire) is happy to demo any kind of similar AB where they can hear a difference I'd really appreciate an invite to come and listen before the Vibe ends up in the classifieds!!!

I'm stumped.

Amplifiers should be totally transparent, allowing for the usual caveats I would expect two properly designed preamps to impart or deduct nothing, if you want to hear a difference go for valves or a deliberately tailored design.
Keith.
 
Beware of any quick-fire switching while music is playing. Your brain will only pick up tonal changes, if any.

It is better to replay the exact same passage of music via each component. That way you at least stand a chance of hearing how each component is reproducing the music and not just the noise.

At DAC bake-off III we will not be doing quick-fire switching.

Thats Bake Off 3 cancelled then. It was a nice idea while it lasted.

How do you know what Vitals brain does? It may be true for you but someone else???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top