Thinking aloud: obj / sub / ABX cyclic arguments etc
- Thread starter Tony L
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It's been suggested that there should be sub-forum for hard core "objectivists". Personally, I'm not sure this would be a good idea. With all voices sharing the same platform, I feel there's more of a chance of us all learning from oneanother. Although I've described myself as a "subjectivist" on this forum, some people will be pleased to hear that I've been influenced by the "objectivist" approach. I'm now using "blind listening" with at least 20 trials to determin which way round a network cable sounds best 
Come on Guys, it's a start!!!!
Come on Guys, it's a start!!!!I agree that of late I have steered clear of a lot of discussions -- these tiresome threads have certainly become a problem at PFM. But I don't see a real solution other than heavier moderation and that runs a risk of creeping censorship in a forum that promotes lively debate (as opposed to say the Naim forum).
I don't envy Tony and the other folks moderating PFM. But if the nonsense continues I'll probably drop out, as I have of virtually all other fora.
I don't envy Tony and the other folks moderating PFM. But if the nonsense continues I'll probably drop out, as I have of virtually all other fora.
pocketkitchen
Registered User
Good point. I suspect heavier moderation is the only way. This thread suggests to me that quite a few just don't seem to want to acknowledge that what they regard as robust debate is enormously off-putting to many. Once someone's expressed their opinion fully then there is really no need for a relentless pursuit of anyone who disagrees. I'm sure the moderators would rather not have to deal with this but if they want to keep pfm a broad church then I think they must, else it will move in ever decreasin circles.
Ok, this thread... bored now.
Seen sub forums set up elsewhere' "blow off steam" rooms and so on and I find crap behaviour expands to fill the available space, plus it becomes a bear pit, a kook magnet and reflects badly on the forum. @asshole in /bearpit is still @asshole in /audio and we carry that baggage from room to room. [sharpens knife for Atomic Pussy threads in /music. I despise it and i will always sneer at people for brazenly admitting to liking catchy tunes by pneumatic waxed brazzers in body stockings and Lycra rather than some emaciated, dss-approved balding tuneless Teuton wielding a laptop like a high-concept audio machete, is it]
Better self moderation is needed, like wheeling in the army, an acknowledgement that not only the perp cannot control themselves but that we cannot contain the perp. Moderation ought to be seen as a failure on all parties on both sides and reflect badly on us all. We need to grow thicker skins; daft, oddball or ill thought through ideas need challenging (actually bloody good ideas also) and less of the victim scenario on both sides. It's ok to go "Jesus Christ, how much?" for a [thing with a backstory] and expect to not be called a "consumer saviour" or subj/obj/whatever-it-is-ist in the same way a guy using a £25 quid DAC whacked up the arse of a £60 consumer product with a bit of fruit on it can still be considered an audiophile. Its not anti audiophile either. Lets get real, yes top end quality is attainable for that kind of spend nowadays, yes MP3s and streaming is that good these days. The world has moved on since the low tech dogmatism of the Linn/Naim dominated 80s. If you can't agree, if you cannot mve on - fine, but audiophile is not what you use, it's who/what you are.
Less of the snobbery on both sides and if you must be one, FFS do it with panache. The world looks at us like stand up comedian misfits with oversized ears, so let's play to the gallery.
Finally, this is the kicker, holding grudges hurts you more than the person you are holding a grudge against. I just hope you all can still accept me even after Metrosexually chilling Reds, extracting coffee wrong and buying an X1. Ice on malt is just simply messed up however, I cannot accept anyone that does that.
Okay maybe I can, a bit.
Srsly.
tl;dr version - The answer is ponies.
Seen sub forums set up elsewhere' "blow off steam" rooms and so on and I find crap behaviour expands to fill the available space, plus it becomes a bear pit, a kook magnet and reflects badly on the forum. @asshole in /bearpit is still @asshole in /audio and we carry that baggage from room to room. [sharpens knife for Atomic Pussy threads in /music. I despise it and i will always sneer at people for brazenly admitting to liking catchy tunes by pneumatic waxed brazzers in body stockings and Lycra rather than some emaciated, dss-approved balding tuneless Teuton wielding a laptop like a high-concept audio machete, is it]
Better self moderation is needed, like wheeling in the army, an acknowledgement that not only the perp cannot control themselves but that we cannot contain the perp. Moderation ought to be seen as a failure on all parties on both sides and reflect badly on us all. We need to grow thicker skins; daft, oddball or ill thought through ideas need challenging (actually bloody good ideas also) and less of the victim scenario on both sides. It's ok to go "Jesus Christ, how much?" for a [thing with a backstory] and expect to not be called a "consumer saviour" or subj/obj/whatever-it-is-ist in the same way a guy using a £25 quid DAC whacked up the arse of a £60 consumer product with a bit of fruit on it can still be considered an audiophile. Its not anti audiophile either. Lets get real, yes top end quality is attainable for that kind of spend nowadays, yes MP3s and streaming is that good these days. The world has moved on since the low tech dogmatism of the Linn/Naim dominated 80s. If you can't agree, if you cannot mve on - fine, but audiophile is not what you use, it's who/what you are.
Less of the snobbery on both sides and if you must be one, FFS do it with panache. The world looks at us like stand up comedian misfits with oversized ears, so let's play to the gallery.
Finally, this is the kicker, holding grudges hurts you more than the person you are holding a grudge against. I just hope you all can still accept me even after Metrosexually chilling Reds, extracting coffee wrong and buying an X1. Ice on malt is just simply messed up however, I cannot accept anyone that does that.
Okay maybe I can, a bit.
Srsly.
tl;dr version - The answer is ponies.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
I don't think moderation has to be 'heavier' as such. I think Tony's thinking aloud may have sprung from a feeling that one or two threads (only) ran well beyond any useful debate. A sharper eye on needless antagonism and perhaps nuking threads where people start repeating themselves to no good effect would be enough. No forum is perfect but you get robust discussion and a stack of people who really know their stuff. You can't compare it to the Naim upgrade forum which reads like an advertising blog these days.
pocketkitchen
Registered User
I agree with that entirely, although I would point out that that's exactly what heavier moderation is.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Actually I don't agree. I would regard it as current moderation levels but more often applied. Heavier moderation IMO is where you start making topics or subjects off limits. I wouldn't want to see that and I don't like bans but if a three strikes and out policy was applied, only a determined offender is likely to get banned.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
More frequent low-key, cajoling moderation is better than the belated bawling out <moderating> stuff.
pocketkitchen
Registered User
I think we're actually agreeing with each other here - I'd call that heavier but perhaps it would be better to call it, as you, more rather than heavier moderation.
paul auster
Banned
670 posts with 6700 suggestions . May be the answer is we all retreat to our own virtual reality set up our own individual "Sims like" pastiche hifi forum [ redfishmedia ] and argue with ourselves till death .
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
The parallel site for absolutist finger waggers should be Gray Mullet. Instead of a ban, Tony could enforce exile to that far off place- either temporary or permanent.
whatsnext
Naimless
Better for you but not better for Moderators. I read comments from Tony / Mods as they want greater SELF MODERATION not to provide more.
Placing the responsibility on others suggest anyone of your view is not envisaging doing any (more?) SELF MODERATION instead carrying on as now and letting others Moderate them.
Doesn't bode well
I'm not just addressing Steven but anyone who expects others to do what they are unwilling or incapable of doing, changing their style of posting to require less moderation. Lazy, selfish feckers
paul auster
Banned
self moderation is an oxymoron !!!
whatsnext
Naimless
In your humble opinion. Be careful of how smart you are Paul.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Calling for self moderation is wishful thinking moderation.
whatsnext
Naimless
Time for Audiclean or your favourite ear cleaning solution PFM clever boys.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Eh?
whatsnext
Naimless
You really do not understand? Did you think before you posted? Timing suggests you just typed away and clicked Save. Calls for thinking before posting have fallen on deaf ears
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