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The valve rant / Solid State SET-like recommendation thread

R

rescuest3ve

pfm Member
So my love/hate relationship with low-powered valve amps looks like it's run its full course and has concluded: its 60/40 in favour of hate. In the last two years I have had to send two high-end amps off to be fixed in some capacity a total of FIVE times. FIVE ****** times. At a total layout maybe £1000.

The amps in question are an Audio Note OTO SE phono and a New Audio Frontiers 2a3 Performance; both, when working, capable of absolutely wonderful music-making. And so they should at a combined RRP of perhaps £14k. 14 ****** thousand. Now, they were both bought second hand at a price considerably lower than that, but one would think that just two pieces of electronic equipment that cost the same as a deposit on a house when new would be good for many a moon; and whilst you can never be sure of the usage before you pick it up, one would hope to get a few years out of them? Well not I.

I estimate I've probably had 100 hours total across the two units? Genuinely, the NAF integrated has spent more time at the engineers than with me (mainly due to Covid, but still...) and now I've just had enough. I'm going to have it fixed one last time, then trading the beautiful bastard in for a NEW solid state amp. You know the type: something that will just... Work.

So does anyone have any recommendations for a solid state that sounds like a thoroughbred SET but will actually last me a few years? My speakers are Audio Note An-Es, which I love and aren't going, so I'm thinking low-powered and maybe class A. I've seen very good things written about Pass Labs, so if like to put them on the shortlist of auditions. Anything else?

Cheers
 
Depends on budget, but from info above would guess a class a sugden integrated would do the job.
 
Do investigate the Pass designs. I have a big soft spot for Sugden but the Pass stuff, for me, is a cut above.

Plenty of options depending on your specific needs. If I had the budget the SIT-3 would be top of my list.

I run a DIY M2 with a decent valve pre which is pretty cost effective. There is a nice F3 for sale on AOS at the minute which could be good.

Jez Arkless swears by the Hiraga le Monstre, another design that intrigues. Would need to be a custom build though, but probably still cost effective.

AD Audio make a 6SL7 based preamp (satchmo 3) that is very well regarded and excellent value. Not DHT obviously but with any of the above would get you pretty close to the sound you want.
 
I think with tubes, today you have two options. Either get stuff that is from really well reputed, built like a tank, robustly made companies for a fair whack of cash (audio research, McIntosh, prima Luna, pathos, etc.), or, take a punt on cheaper but still well built and really well reviewed chifi tube gear and see if you luck out (cayin, willsenton, reisong, doge).

Either that or buy used classic and have a good relationship with a talented tech.
 
The Bish said:
The Sugden A21a Signature for sale over on the WAM would be a good bet. Zero risk as a purchase as you can sell it on easily if it doesn't work out.
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I've always wanted a Sugden but I'm not familiar with it! Do you know if they have huge bass grip, clarity and musicality like the NAF does?
 
eastone said:
Do investigate the Pass designs. I have a big soft spot for Sugden but the Pass stuff, for me, is a cut above.

Plenty of options depending on your specific needs. If I had the budget the SIT-3 would be top of my list.

I run a DIY M2 with a decent valve pre which is pretty cost effective. There is a nice F3 for sale on AOS at the minute which could be good.

Jez Arkless swears by the Hiraga le Monstre, another design that intrigues. Would need to be a custom build though, but probably still cost effective.

AD Audio make a 6SL7 based preamp (satchmo 3) that is very well regarded and excellent value. Not DHT obviously but with any of the above would get you pretty close to the sound you want.
Click to expand...

This is kind of the direction I had in mind. I was considering a nice valve pre into a bullet proof Class A power: something like a Shindo into a Krell KSA50 MK1. Probably too much for my speakers, but along those lines. Thanks for the recommendations I'll check them out!
 
rescuest3ve said:
So does anyone have any recommendations for a solid state that sounds like a thoroughbred SET but will actually last me a few years?
Click to expand...
Hi,
I'm afraid you won't find what you are looking for. :(
I also love a good a good sounding valve amplifier and have never ever heard a solid state that sounds like a good valve amplifier. I also love to own something that is absolutely reliable but you won't get a valve sound from a solid state amplifier, especially no SET sound.

I have heard the Sugden A 21 SE and to me it didn't sound like a PP valve amplifier and even less then a SET.

You can buy warm sounding solid state amplifier but you will never get the heights, the flow or the stage a valve amplifier can do IMO, even if you combine a valve pre with a solid state power amplifier. Some people claim that a combination is best of both worlds and you can get close to a full valve setup, but in my experience that isn't true.

I don't write this to p... you off, only to keep your expectations at a realistic level.
 
Grandinote? Never heard them but if a demo is available could be worth a try. I don’t see a UK distributer but they seem to be everywhere else.
 
anubisgrau said:
Jean Hiraga designs, anything you find decently made.
In my book of audio, better than Pass' (and I owned some of his best, F3 and SIT-3).
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I will have a le Monstre here one day, though probably not before the little one has flown the roost.

Is that what you use now?
 
rescuest3ve said:
I've always wanted a Sugden but I'm not familiar with it! Do you know if they have huge bass grip, clarity and musicality like the NAF does?
Click to expand...

Clarity and musicality they definitely have but not the huge bass grip. It’s the standard A21 I refer to, not the SE which is a different proposition. I think what Old Shatterhand said is right, these class A options won’t sound like SET but for solid state options they might get close to a sound that you enjoy.
 
My mate has a pair of quad monoblocks and the expensive valves he uses dont seem to last very long! It sounds great but not cheap to run..
 
You could try a t amp? They sound a bit like a valve amp..or a bantam stealth amp? Yes only £100 but put some decent speakers on them and you might be surprised..I was.
 
Old Shatterhand said:
Hi,
I'm afraid you won't find what you are looking for. :(
I also love a good a good sounding valve amplifier and have never ever heard a solid state that sounds like a good valve amplifier. I also love to own something that is absolutely reliable but you won't get a valve sound from a solid state amplifier, especially no SET sound.

I have heard the Sugden A 21 SE and to me it didn't sound like a PP valve amplifier and even less then a SET.

You can buy warm sounding solid state amplifier but you will never get the heights, the flow or the stage a valve amplifier can do IMO, even if you combine a valve pre with a solid state power amplifier. Some people claim that a combination is best of both worlds and you can get close to a full valve setup, but in my experience that isn't true.

I don't write this to p... you off, only to keep your expectations at a realistic level.
Click to expand...

This is no doubt correct. I haven’t had a SET amp here so I’m not exactly chasing that particular sound.

I can say that the M2 with valve pre and a good source has a flow that I haven’t heard in any other amp, valve or solid state. It has a feeling of ‘life’ in the way individual musical elements emerge in and through their own time. Every other amp I’ve owned has a ‘time’ of its own imposed on the music, including valve amps, hybrids, and solid state. It’s probably a subtle difference but fundamental, for me.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard that ‘lit from within’ SET thing that people sometimes describe, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if a valve preamp using DHTs into my M2 would give some of that ‘flavour’. Its a pretty transparent device in spite of its OPTs and that careful sprinkling of harmonic distortion. Certainly a long way from simply being warm or euphonic, like the simpler Sugden devices, delightful as they are.

What the combination does give is the ability to convincingly deliver a very wide range of music, from Detroit techno to Coltrane to Brahms. I expect you have to spend an awful lot more on a SET amp that will achieve that.

It’s worth the OP reading the manuals for all the Pass First Watt amps. Nelson is very articulate about the way he explores harmonic distortion, and each First Watt amp does that in a different way.

Even if going in a different direction it will help clarify exactly what it is about SET amps he is wishing to replicate, and what he can dispense with. The First Watt amps are really just micro-dosed with harmonic distortion whereas some SET amps are clearly a full-on trip!

PS: as well as that sense of ‘life’ I get an uncanny image depth and walk-through soundstage.
 
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eastone said:
This is no doubt correct. I haven’t had a SET amp here so I’m not exactly chasing that particular sound.

I can say that the M2 with valve pre and a good source has a flow that I haven’t heard in any other amp, valve or solid state. It has a feeling of ‘life’ in the way individual musical elements emerge in and through their own time. Every other amp I’ve owned has a ‘time’ of its own imposed on the music, including valve amps, hybrids, and solid state. It’s probably a subtle difference but fundamental, for me.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard that ‘lit from within’ SET thing that people sometimes describe, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if a valve preamp using DHTs into my M2 would give some of that ‘flavour’. Its a pretty transparent device in spite of its OPTs and that careful sprinkling of harmonic distortion. Certainly a long way from simply being warm or euphonic, like the simpler Sugden devices, delightful as they are.

What the combination does give is the ability to convincingly deliver a very wide range of music, from Detroit techno to Coltrane to Brahms. I expect you have to spend an awful lot more on a SET amp that will achieve that.

It’s worth the OP reading the manuals for all the Pass First Watt amps. Nelson is very articulate about the way he explores harmonic distortion, and each First Watt amp does that in a different way.

Even if going in a different direction it will help clarify exactly what it is about SET amps he is wishing to replicate, and what he can dispense with. The First Watt amps are really just micro-dosed with harmonic distortion whereas some SET amps are clearly a full-on trip!
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Very nicely explained and similar to what I experience with my Audio Note M3 Pre and Sugden FBA800 Class A. I wanted to go down the SET road with my Tannoys but the Audio Note Oto and P1 I tried didn’t cut it. I was concerned about matching two different manufacturers and Amp types, but to my ears I ve ended up with a beautiful, generous and captivating sound. Just my little experience.
 
Think I've been looking along the same lines, though I have pp valves into ESLs, so I'm a little limited in the power amp field. (stereo chassis rather than the mono's I have). I think I may crack it with my current pre (EAR 912) feeding a Krell/Mark Levinson monstrosity, from what I've read.

I feel the Old Shatterhand has nailed it. PP amps are one thing, but SET amps are quite another, and unlikely to be matched by a s/s integrated or power.
 
I have heard dire and great valve amps, just as I have SS amps. There is NO intrinsic sound to either topology, simply design implementations that either work well or do not. Anyone who believes they can add warmth by simply 'moving to valves' is mistaken.

Something that will work, sound great and is Class A - Accuphase.
 
Instead of class A why not have a look at amps with capacitor coupled single rail output stage. My Ion Obelisk 3 has a sweet midrange & smooth top end that is very reminiscent of my ST20. I believe the current Heed Obelisk amps have modern interpretations of the Nytech/Ion output stages. I believe some of the Audio Analogue amps also have capacitor coupled output stages & and have a reputation for having a "valve like" sound.
TS
 
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