The (many) crimes of the United States of America

[notaclue]

Further to a post on the Ukraine thread (which I can't immediately find), here is a thread where you can post bad things about the US (and the West in general, if you wish) so as not to upset the whataboutery worriers.

I think a potentially fascinating topic.

We live in the age of the American Empire*.

A country built on mass crimes of theft, genocide and slavery. A country awash with weapons and violence. Yet one that sells us a Hollywood vision of goodness and virtue. Genocide as wholesome Western movies.

What the American way offers us in trade for its crimes, of course, is personal liberty. But perhaps that liberty is mainly to encourage the rampant consumerism of the American way of life? Or perhaps you think America is a true beacon of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? An empire apart from the empires that preceded it?

This will be a good video to start:

* until China takes over

 

[notaclue]

How it began. "They wanted everything..."

 

[dan m]

Yawn.

 

[darrenyeats]

What characterises Western democracies is selfishness, disunity and short-termism. But also democracy, which I find preferable to Russia or China-style autocracy.

Autocrats and their apologists are the true experts in whataboutery.

 

[Spraggons Den]

I think it’s soooo important to put the USs transgressions into historical context in order to gauge the nature and scale of their crimes. So I hope y'all don't mind if I nominate some other countries who had empires (admit to not knowing the precise definition of an empire) and who might have behaved less than impeccably. I’ll get the ball rolling with a few choice nominees:

Russia - USSR
Germany - Nazis obvs
France - Napoleon obvs
Great Britain - Victorian
Netherlands - 1600s
Portugal - 1600s
Spain - South America, not sure when
Normans - 1066 and all that
Moors - Islamic one from Africa….
Mongols - Genghis Khan
Romans - loads of bad shit
Greeks - those Spartans kicked butt

Feel free to chime in with your own (probably better than mine) suggestions

 

[suzywong]

So what have the Romans ever done for us?

 

[Hook]

As an American, I would like to offer a sincere apology for my country’s many historical sins. I am not a nationalist, and I welcome an honest discussion about US history.

Needless to say, we may not all agree on what constituted a sin. For example, I think slavery was a monstrous sin, but I do not believe it is sinful for the US to provide military aid to the Ukraine. Others may disagree.

Perhaps, someday, in more pleasant times, we can have a thread about positive things the US has produced (e.g., constitutional democracy, ‘57 Chevy Bel Air, etc.).

 

[Ponty]

Vikings. Proper bad asses.

 

[notaclue]

Another good video...

 

[stevec67]

As an American, I would like to offer a sincere apology for my country’s many historical sins. I am not a nationalist, and I welcome an honest discussion about US history.

Needless to say, we may not all agree on what constituted a sin. For example, I think slavery was a monstrous sin, but I do not believe it is sinful for the US to provide military aid to the Ukraine. Others may disagree.

Perhaps, someday, in more pleasant times, we can have a thread about positive things the US has produced (e.g., constitutional democracy, ‘57 Chevy Bel Air, etc.).

Yeah, but the jazz goes without saying, doesn't it?

 

[Hook]

Yeah, but the jazz goes without saying, doesn't it?

Unless you consider jazz a crime, in which case this is the thread for you!

 

[flatpopely]

@notaclue

Do you despise America?

 

[Alex S]

So what have the Romans ever done for us?

 

[rbrown]

As an American, I would like to offer a sincere apology for my country’s many historical sins. I am not a nationalist, and I welcome an honest discussion about US history.

Needless to say, we may not all agree on what constituted a sin. For example, I think slavery was a monstrous sin, but I do not believe it is sinful for the US to provide military aid to the Ukraine. Others may disagree.

Perhaps, someday, in more pleasant times, we can have a thread about positive things the US has produced (e.g., constitutional democracy, ‘57 Chevy Bel Air, etc.).

Our history isn’t very pretty either. Probably a lot worse to be honest.

 

[Yank]

The crimes of brothers Allan and John Foster Dulles are at the root of many problems which still destabilize the world today.

 

[Cav]

There is without doubt no country, big or small, that is without sin - historic or current.

Nothing a fulsome apology won't put right.

 

[PsB]

The original sins of the USA are imperialism, genocide and slavery. They added neo-colonialism later on.

The original sins of Europe are imperialism, genocide and colonialism. But I digress.

 

[Curtis]

I love the old septic’s.
World leaders in dealing with people of colour & a peerless police force.
The old gun culture is particularly inspiring.
They don’t mind dropping the odd atomic bomb from time to time either.
Cracking lot really.

 

[Darmok]

US strikes Iran-backed group in Syria after attack on coalition base

A US contractor was killed when a suspected Iranian-made drone struck base in Syria’s north-east

US strikes Iran-backed group in Syria after attack on coalition base | Syria | The Guardian

Latest, 24:03:2023. 04:17AM

Not a crime, just Retaliation.

 

[wacko]

The original sins of the USA are imperialism, genocide and slavery. They added neo-colonialism later on.

The original sins of Europe are imperialism, genocide and colonialism. But I digress.

I'd include slavery as a European sin: transport, trading in slaves and plantations in Caribbean etc. Many European (especially Britain, Portugal, France, Netherlands & Spain) fortunes were founded on slavery.