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The latest works WRC cars. Too fast.

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Tony Lockhart, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. Dowser

    Dowser Learning to bodge again..

    That crash was down to bottoming out and losing his line, no question. But, why were the team running such limited suspension travel? Maybe that was the only dangerous bump on the stage, and team orders were to drive around it so they can run the better suspension settings for rest of stage. Otherwise seems a stupid mistake.

    I also no longer think it is about power (or downforce by itself), its the advances in suspension and transmission technology that allows this power to be applied optimally in all situations (unless you bottom out, of course...).
     
  2. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart pfm Member

    Well, you can’t really single out any single factor, but the cleverest drive system is useless at 120mph on a winter’s road if the tyres aren’t being pushed hard into the surface.

    The power and traction means the cars are doing those speeds more often and for longer. Crashes are inevitable, therefore very high speed crashes become more inevitable.

    And as current WRC champion, Tanak knows what he’s doing, but even he got it very wrong. Hyundai aren’t mugs either.
     
  3. Gaycha

    Gaycha pfm Member

    Control tyres is one way to slow them. But the technologists will always overcome like they did when grooved tyres were introduced in F1.

    It's a dangerous sport. My good friend from Weston, mark Lovell, a brilliant and very experienced driver, was killed in 2004 in. Subaru in Oregon. Knife edge living.

     
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  4. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart pfm Member

    I met Mark on his visit to the Ford dealership in Darlington in, I think, 1989. It was part of the PR stuff he had to do, and as I arrived early we were chatting for about an hour! Yes, a very likeable guy, and very fast indeed. I went to the Manx International in ‘89 too, only to see Mark have to hand over his win to the unpopular Russell Brookes. Mark did his doughnuts right in front of us at a hairpin. So disappointing for him, the fans, and his sponsors.
     
    Gaycha likes this.
  5. Dowser

    Dowser Learning to bodge again..

    Agreed that downforce also important. But Im not convinced Tanak got it wrong, unless he was supposed to avoid the yump that grounded his car? Otherwise his suspension was faulty or too soft? I doubt anyone could have recovered the car in the same situation, he was effectively bounced offline when he grounded & probably did well not to stuff it into the trees at a bigger angle.
     
  6. Dowser

    Dowser Learning to bodge again..

    Actually, just looked at 2nd video you posted - his rear wheel left the tarmac & that seems to have caused the initial bounce that then grounded him twice. So he did get it wrong...
     
  7. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart pfm Member

    Another driver, Suninon, nearly did the same as Tanak

     
  8. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    I think the co drivers need to rework their notes for that section...

    Clearly it's not 6 flat
     
  9. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart pfm Member

    If the pace notes were written at lower speeds, nobody would know.
     
  10. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    Surely even on the reccy they'd notice the surface/bumps would be an issue at speed, especially on a bend like that.
     
  11. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart pfm Member

    The drivers will be the first to say that what looks like a series of gentle rises at 50km/h can turn into an increasing oscillation at nearly 200km/h. Tony Pond made such a comment during the reccy for the 1980 Manx, I think.

    Edit: it was 1981. At about 4mins 20.

     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  12. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    Very high corner speeds mean spectators will have to be kept so far back, that attending the race is pointless
     
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  13. peter bj

    peter bj pfm Member

    cars are looking great on tv but things are getting dangerous and set up does look off
     
  14. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    To be honest if you see some footage from other stages and parts of the Rally then they don't look OTT out of control like some of the Group B monsters did, I think it's just an isolated part of the course and a set up issue where they've gone for full tarmac attack mode and a section of surface has caught them out.
     
  15. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart pfm Member

    But my point is based on exactly that. Humans make mistakes, and if a few mistakes coincide, the big crash happens.
     
  16. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    But they had big crashes when they were only 300 brake as well, there is always going to be the chance of a big crash, it's rallying!
     
  17. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart pfm Member

    Ok then. Let’s free the reins and let them have unlimited horsepower, freedom of differentials, huge downforce, tyre changes mid-stage, unobtanium materials...

    And all for what, exactly? How do these cars entertain more than Delecour driving down an alpine pass in a 2wd 911? Or Vatanen in an RS1800 flying through a Yorkshire forest?
     
  18. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    I'm ok with that if they want to do it.

    I'm not in favour of them gimping the cars so they're nothing more than mediocre/warmed over production cars.

    None of the below looks any more dangerous than rallying has ever been, in fact it looks well under control and quite sedate.

     
  19. Eyebroughty

    Eyebroughty JohnC

    I wonder what the drivers are thinking......

     
    cctaylor likes this.
  20. Tarzan

    Tarzan pfm Member

    Good Lord.:eek:
     

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