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The Know it all Audiophile

DARKO is great. I always look forward to his videos and publications.

This video is obviously one that is designed to stir up a debate and I believe one that is on point. I can remember when I first started to get into hifi properly about 15 years ago (when I had enough money to waste) and use to ask for advice on a certain forum and often use to get very unfriendly responses. The hifi community can be it’s own worst enemy and we need to be more positive and inclusive you can do that while also being critical of hifi gear at the same time. Even a more traditional hifi reviewer Hans Beekhuzyen is calling for this as well.

I look at my dad who got me into hifi and a lot of his friends share his passions but I have yet to meet anyone my age who shares it as well. My mates think I’m bonkers saving up for hifi stuff rather then going on holiday
 
The hifi community can be it’s own worst enemy and we need to be more positive and inclusive you can do that while also being critical of hifi gear at the same time.

I agree, though from my perspective it is in no way deliberate and is certainly not snobbery. I don’t know of anyone in the audio community or wider industry that intends to be anything less than welcoming and friendly to younger/newer users, though I can certainly understand why, like so many specialist communities, it can look alienating from the outside. Especially the endless entrenched cyclic arguments about ultimately trivial things, but you will find that on any similar community (computing, cycling, photography etc etc). This is not helped in our particular industry with the ever spiralling prices from an increasingly boutique design and manufacturing base, though again this applies to photography, cycling etc. I’ve been arguing this point pretty much from the inception of pfm which is why this forum (along with AudioKarma and a couple of others) sits in its own position in the marketplace actively championing used and classic kit as a viable option at every price and performance level. I really want to attract new folk with a starting interest in audio to this site, though do accept I have been far less successful than I would like in this aim.

I’d never even heard of this Darko YouTuber before so I’ve no idea if the linked content is typical of his content, but I certainly felt it misunderstood and misrepresented the community I’ve been a part of for much of my life.
 
I think the simple reason the audio market is dominated by ‘cashed up middle aged dudes’ (as he anachronistically puts it) is simply because such Hi-Fi is bloody expensive and very much a luxury purchase!

Sorry to say but he even has the age group incorrect. It should be ‘cashed up old dudes’. 80% - 90% of customers still buying new Hifi today are over 60... They are the people with money and also the only ones still interested in traditional audio equipment as we know it...
 
using and maintaining used / classic hifi, if done properly, surely needs a fairly demanding set of fettling skills - or access to, and budget for, reliable repair people.
the former is too high a price of entrance for many potentially (if they're actually aware that kit is unlikely to be correctly in spec. etc, as opposed to a 'reasonable' sound coming out), and, if my experience is anything to go by, the latter is even more discouraging (and I've tried, and had dismal experiences with, a few of the 'well-known' names, and, no, I'm not going to elaborate here).

In terms of the physical media compared to digital / files, when it comes to vinyl and tape, buying that used is a whole other can of worms of course.

to be fair, many 'make do' with the reasonable sound coming out of vintage kit bought opportunistically (I have in general, lacking the tech. skills mentioned above), and the sound can certainly be very reasonable subjectively.
But look at this forum for example: there are a few posts above by serial 'offenders' in terms of high-level fettling apparently making light of the need for just this; but so many posts / threads on the enthusiast forums will give a very different impression - and that's bound to be discouraging / intimitdating for many.
BTW - my terminology is not meant to offend - I have only admiration for (and envy of) such fettlers / fettling personally.
 
Sorry to say but he even has the age group incorrect. It should be ‘cashed up old dudes’. 80% - 90% of customers still buying new Hifi today are over 60... They are the people with money and also the only ones still interested in traditional audio equipment as we know it...
The north west audio show the other week certainly fits that demographic. Very few young folks there.
 
The north west audio show the other week certainly fits that demographic. Very few young folks there.
Don't know what you saw, but compared to many shows I've visited I saw a fair scattering of young-ish dads, often with wives and/or kids in tow. That's a demographic you don't often get at shows, and is a credit to the organisers.
 
Having listened to a little of what mr darko has put out he seems very naive and limited.

And it’s easy to interpret his manner and attitude as those of a pompous imbecile.

I am an apostle of Occam’s razor.
 
I like anyone talking about music appreciation, doesn't mean I agree with their views. It is a personal thing after all, otherwise robots would oversee all of recording, mixing and mastering...
 
It's hard to argue with him since a know-it-all is usually acutely judgmental. You could do similar treatments of just about anything relying upon shopping therapy since beyond the attempt to make oneself feel better is the opportunity to diminish someone else's attempt to feel better as a means to validate the pile of stuff not fulfilling its intended purpose anywhere near equal to the ongoing investment.
 
The problem of how to attract the young into proper hifi is a large one for the industry I think! As others have said back when I was a student (88-91) a Hifi was something most of my friends owned and music and listening to it together was something we all did all the time. In my first year at Uni I was running a Systemdek IIX, Linn LVX, Arcam P77mg front end, a secondhand Technics quartz locked tuner I bought for £20 and had a decent Aiwa Cassette deck all feeding a Naim Nait series 1 into Mordaunt Short MS30's on dedicated stands. I was certainly not a rich kid and worked my ass off doing double shifts in the pub I worked at to get the money together for it.

My daughter now 14 has been provided with some of my spare kit in her bedroom for free including my old Ariston RD110Sl turntable (so very near LP12 entry level!) into a fairly high end Yamaha AV amp and driving Linn Kan speakers. She also has a Squeezebox touch to access my huge array of music on the NAS as well as internet radio. Downstairs of course she can listen anytime to my superb middle tier Naim system into ATC SCM40's. I'm staggered that in fact most of her music listening is from spotify to her ipad and into headphones. She loves music, she plays guitar and piano and even composes her own stuff and uses Logic Pro for recording with a good microphone (also provided by me!)

I got hugely excited recently when I upgraded from SBL to the ATC's but while she ackowledged the difference she actually resented me spending the money because I had recently refused to buy her a load of clothes and I suspect she'd have regarded £4k in Urban Outfitters as money better spent!

I actually find it pretty depressing that despite growing up in a house surrounded by good audio gear she doesn't really care what she listens to music on and nor do any of her mates as far as I can tell. Of course all this could be a teenage rebellion thing and she might decide at 18 that she wants a decent hifi to go to uni with, but at the moment I can't see it happening.

Despite that her interest and knowledge of music is very extensive - indeed she probably listens to it more than even I do. I heard her playing Joy Division and then Mazzy Star the other day on her crappy ipad so she does have broad taste and has surprised me by discovering older stuff for herself. She also seems to have a Billy Eilish obsession which I find rather 'dirge-like' at times although I won't deny the girl has talent.

Birdseed
 
Quite clearly, there are more devices/things for young folk to spend their hard earned on these days, dedicated Hi-Fi trying to compete with the latest phone and bluetooth headphones doesn't stand much of a chance.

Even the young people who do own something only do so for the novelty/cool factor or appreciate it from a design point of view and are happy to have it on display as such, they probably listen to their phone or bluetooth speaker more than the novelty Hi-Fi as well.

We're a world that has gone from owning multiple devices for multiple various tasks, to a world of one device doing it all. I wonder if 60 years ago you piled up a Hi-Fi, camera, telephone, computer, calculator, television, torch plus all the other things you find on a phone, showed it to someone and said 'you'll soon be able to put all that in your pocket and carry it around with you' what their reaction would be, would it be a positive one?
 
We're a world that has gone from owning multiple devices for multiple various tasks, to a world of one device doing it all. I wonder if 60 years ago you piled up a Hi-Fi, camera, telephone, computer, calculator, television, torch plus all the other things you find on a phone, showed it to someone and said 'you'll soon be able to put all that in your pocket and carry it around with you' what their reaction would be, would it be a positive one?
The hifi expert of the day would suggest, quite clearly & precisely that you are a loon & that science just does not allow such wizardry. Fooey they would say as the hoard of engineers (and wannabe engineers) jump on you from a great height to point out your utter incoherent babble.
 
Quite clearly, there are more devices/things for young folk to spend their hard earned on these days, dedicated Hi-Fi trying to compete with the latest phone and bluetooth headphones doesn't stand much of a chance.

Even the young people who do own something only do so for the novelty/cool factor or appreciate it from a design point of view and are happy to have it on display as such, they probably listen to their phone or bluetooth speaker more than the novelty Hi-Fi as well.

I appreciate that you're talking in generalities here, but I can tell you that there are definitely young people out there who are seeking out better sound quality.
 
The hi-fi industry like newspapers, commercial TV & radio is facing a demographic cliff. I can see some traction in better quality Bluetooth & active speakers but little else.
 
I’d never even heard of this Darko YouTuber before so I’ve no idea if the linked content is typical of his content, but I certainly felt it misunderstood and misrepresented the community I’ve been a part of for much of my life.

https://darko.audio/[URL]https://darko.audio/ [/URL] His reviews are often very good especially the older ones. Like all he has to make a living so the hobby reviews ended up with the site linked. He also likes David Byrne a lot so that makes him alright in my world :)
 
Hi all (long post sorry)....i often watch darko on YouTube, although I don't necessarily agree with some of his comments or reviews of kit I couldn't really care less. I like watching simply as someone else's point of view on audio and related. If it really irks me then I don't have to watch it. That video does resonate with me though and I can see why it's created this thread even if I don't agree with all that was said.

In my opinion Hifi systems and high end audio in general has become sort of obsolete and niche? My dad had what would have been considered a good hifi system when I was a child (quad). my in laws were the same. From what I can see hifi was perhaps a status symbol years ago, bit like owning your own TV and VCR- many couldn't afford and often rented, remember that!

In my life hifi has always been there but that's probably because of my dad, he took pride in it but was always happy for me and my friends to use it when I was a child. I always remember we had a cd player in 1990 (I'm 35) and friends or sometimes neighbours would come over to play their cds, we enjoyed the music. I can't really recall my dad ever talking about or demonstrating his quad hifi other than to show us how to use it. That was it. in his mind he purchased something that he considered well made and worth the money at the time. Many years later I inherited his hifi when he bought a mini all in one thing. My dad was going to take his quad hifi to the tip! His view was the quad was clunky and they wanted something that was simple to use and didn't look like Dixon's window display in their living room.

Today 'hifi' can often be obtained as reasonably priced all in one's, Bluetooth speakers etc. I'm not saying that modern stuff is 'hifi' or better but technology has allowed us all to access music literally anywhere and at anytime. People who listen to and drive music sales probably don't own what we would consider hifi. The reality is that a £1000+ iPhone and a pair of headphones is now probably the first choice.

That money can buy a hifi, but it's just no longer desirable to most people. I will say that (I feel) as group of people who are into hifi we often end up looking like the weird people with speaker cables elevated on pylons and stacks of mana etc. We think the youngsters on love island are affected by social media while we all obsess over the perceived differences between two £1000 power cables.i know that's a generalized comment but I do feel we often, as a collective don't really help ourselves?
 
This Darko fellow seems to fancy himself a sort of consumer-electronics version of Christopher Hitchens.

Maybe I should have stopped at "This Darko fellow seems to fancy himself..."
 


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