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The John Westlake/Lakewest MDAC/FDAC, VFET and Detox

nostromo said:
My understanding is that putting together a DAC is fairly trivial, in fact one such beast (a variation of the DaCapo design) was demonstrated to a select few by JW and compared favourably to a Chord (I forget the exact model, maybe a Hugo).

As with most high end DACs (I'm thinking dCS) the 'clock section' is a very important section. JWs 'clock section' will (hopefully) be novel and best.
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It depends on the sample rate, the jitter requirements increase by 20*log(m) where m is the multiplication factor over a nominal sample rate.
 
russel said:
It depends on the sample rate, the jitter requirements increase by 20*log(m) where m is the multiplication factor over a nominal sample rate.
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You maybe presuming technical knowledge I don't have, I have virtually none. From what I read (ASR) jitter these days can be reduced to insignificance, but there maybe more than one type of jitter, I don't know. If a novel clock section and DAC array can produce a precise /accurate /sublime analogue output into my amps, I'll be a happy bunny. (no allusion to Easter intended).
 
There's correlated jitter, signal related, and good old fashioned none correlated, which is just noise.

It would seem many dacs have both of these better than -130db, -170db in a couple of cases.

Safe to assume its no longer an issue.

Phase noise is the new big thing. Except no one has published any audibility tests, yet. So we don't even know if it's a real issue or just an engineering thing to bugger about with.
 
sq225917 said:
There's correlated jitter, signal related, and good old fashioned none correlated, which is just noise.

It would seem many dacs have both of these better than -130db, -170db in a couple of cases.

Safe to assume its no longer an issue.

Phase noise is the new big thing. Except no one has published any audibility tests, yet. So we don't even know if it's a real issue or just an engineering thing to bugger about with.
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Phase noise is time related jitter which could be any of the jitters you have mentioned above, time related jitter is the only one of any relevance to DACs.
 
Phase noise and timing jitter are different ways of expressing the same thing
edit: Debate about this should be moved to a new thread
 
I think SQ makes a good point a few posts back. I'm sure this post is obvious to everyone who's been following the thread/saga for the last 8 years.

JohnW is a designer and a good one, i'm listening to a 20 odd year old Dac he designed and it still knocks spots off some of the more modern Dacs i have.

What he isn't, is a manufacturer or producer of equipment (and never has been, perhaps someone can correct me if i'm wrong here).

JW uses the resources of *others to both fund and manufacture his designs, see Stack audio and Project for two recent examples, the features of them products contain the ideas discussed on these pages.

Did our investment money contribute to the design of the Project and Stack products? Anyway...

A manufacturer must make a compromise to the designers vision of a product to bring that product to market -in a timely fashion- and sell it, because they want make money, they are a business.

JohnW is missing the compromise bit and like anyone who is good at at anything, a perfectionist, that means a design will never be good enough, unlike a manufacture and business, he doesn't have to compromise or make any money and bring anything to the market in a timely fashion, there is no concrete obligation or plan, other than a vague ever changing one.

See you in another 8 years.
 
Very sorry to see that people are still waiting. It’s disappointing given the reputation of the designer and the failure to communicate is unreasonable. Couldn’t some form of civil action be taken if people wish to reclaim their initial trusted investment?
 
Del, back at the start of the project a member here offered to manage the project, it was rejected because it would mean a time scale and compromise, which seemed reasonable at the time, at the start if JW had said the product would be delivered in 2 years time, i think he'd have had zero investors.

This has ballooned into all sort of things, the VFETS being amongst them, one VFET investor posted a while back feeling he wouldn't be around long enough to see his amps delivered (i suspect that goes for all of us).
As there was no contract between the investors and JW and it was all done on the basis of good will as far as i can see, i'm not sure where anyone stands legally, i know other products have been brought to market that share the features of what the MDAC2 was supposed to be.

I know a fair few of us can simply write off the investment money and chalk it up to experience, if i was thousands in and had a set of VFETs on order i'm not sure i could write it off, i'd want my money back, i feel sorry for the people who have invested so much.

I think JW is a good person, who was incredibly helpful to many (i'm sure people viewing this from outside would see that sentiment as crazy).
There are people on here that could help JW get everything done, like the initial management offer all them years ago, no man is and island, or perhaps it's time to burn them boots.

He should have stuck to what he was good at, helping the swingers of Newton Abbot cop off...

 
Actually this whole project feels very much like a M.C. Escher painting;
Going forward, progress, forward, progress and somehow you keep returning to the same start point ... :eek:
 
davidsrsb said:
Phase noise and timing jitter are different ways of expressing the same thing
edit: Debate about this should be moved to a new thread
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Since I recall JW mentioning Phase Noise, I'm curious to know what it is?. What has become out of phase with what, is there a simple explanation as to what it is and where it originates from?

I'd prefer a little more discussion around this atm rather than 'navel gazng' or continuing to bemoan what is plainly obvious to all.
 
Yes, I don’t think he quite reaches the depths of some recent debacles and I do think he appears decent. Perhaps a little naive business wise and other developments seem to have taken priority. The thing is, with his mind firmly set on getting the best, most up to date, won’t it just be continuous cycle of ‘nearly there’?
Shame for those who put in such loyalty and money.
 
Space is the Place said:
I think JW is a good person, who was incredibly helpful to many (i'm sure people viewing this from outside would see that sentiment as crazy).
There are people on here that could help JW get everything done, like the initial management offer all them years ago, no man is and island, or perhaps it's time to burn them boots.
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Well the other viewpoint is con artists are often charming and if he is in it up to his neck why not accept help?
 
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