torstoi
pfm Member
And you are not going to pay anything near to what the May costs
Now that's definitely true..
Ok, it's a similar performance..I thought the concept had been sold yet another time apart from Project.
The John Westlake/Lakewest MDAC/FDAC, VFET and Detox
- Thread starter Tony L
- Start date
Now that's definitely true..
Ok, it's a similar performance..I thought the concept had been sold yet another time apart from Project.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Neither of them close to beating the measurements of the May.
The Teac delivered 102/104db for thd+noise at 4v from the network input.
The two current top spec project dacs can only muster 0.0006% while the May does 0.000117%
The Holo May lv2 is around 10db better in every measurement.
The Teac delivered 102/104db for thd+noise at 4v from the network input.
The two current top spec project dacs can only muster 0.0006% while the May does 0.000117%
The Holo May lv2 is around 10db better in every measurement.
Timcat
pfm Member
But, they don't and it should!
However, it remains the case that the difference between all quality DACs is often a matter of preference and may actually be the result of the analogue circuitry between the DAC chip(s) and the output fed to the power amps (whether that be in a separate pre or part of the DAC), or the impedance match between each DAC and amp.
Timcat
pfm Member
Having said that, the May DAC does look very interesting!!! Trouble is that I would need a new pre-amp as well, as I currently use a Mytek Manhattan II (which is a combined DAC and analogue pre). I wonder what the May would sound like with a Tron Atlantic mmmm...
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If you do not mind the extra complexity you can use software volume control in HQPlayer or Roon. HQPlayer is supposed to be the best. Some actually prefer this amp direct to DAC approach. Personally I prefer a preamp as it is less complex and nothing can go wrong.
Timcat
pfm Member
I agree with you on using a preamp, even if it is passive. I quite like the idea of the Tron, as I have read a lot of good things about it. Trouble is that the May/Tron combination would be c£10k.
Whaleblue
Southbound
Ooo, lots of pennies!
I’d like one just because it’s orange!
Apologies for OT - Simon do start a thread if you think this May is worthy…
nostromo
pfm Member
I removed my Preamp (Linn Kairn) about 3 years ago. I use software volume control. Removing the Preamp was an instant and pretty large improvement in SQ. I would not go back to having a Preamp as I'm only a single (DAC) input user these days.
As I've said before, I can't see how a Preamp could improve the SQ.
The May is very inticing. If I could be certain that the FDAC/MDAC project was definitely off... I could redirect my saved up pennies towards the May.
As I've said before, I can't see how a Preamp could improve the SQ.
The May is very inticing. If I could be certain that the FDAC/MDAC project was definitely off... I could redirect my saved up pennies towards the May.
nostromo
pfm Member
I did try a Project PreBox (as I really wanted a remote to control volume) and even that was quite noticeably inferior to no Preamp at all.
If as you say, I may be suffering snr loss, what would you recommend I try bearing in mind I need remote volume control.
Timcat
pfm Member
Whether one would be better off using a pre, in my view, depends upon the DAC. I currently use RME and Mytek DACs, which have hardware volume controls (RME has a hybrid digital/analogue VC and the Myteks have a choice of digital or analogue). These sound better direct into the power amps (using the analogue VC in the Myteks avoids the S/N issue pointed out above at low levels).
I have not heard any streaming application whose software VC does not degrade the SQ, probably because none of these are bit perfect. This is why most good apps allow the software VC to be bypassed.
As I understand it, the May DAC doesn’t include any form of hardware VC, hence the need for a preamp. A simple passive might well work just fine. I suggested the Tron above because of its reputation for excellent SQ, and I have always quite fancied one!
I have not heard any streaming application whose software VC does not degrade the SQ, probably because none of these are bit perfect. This is why most good apps allow the software VC to be bypassed.
As I understand it, the May DAC doesn’t include any form of hardware VC, hence the need for a preamp. A simple passive might well work just fine. I suggested the Tron above because of its reputation for excellent SQ, and I have always quite fancied one!
Timcat
pfm Member
It is my understanding that software volume controls alter the data and, therefore, cannot be bit perfect.
Having said that, do you mean that some streaming app volume controls work in the same way as the digital volume control in ESS (and other) DAC chips, by converting the incoming bit rate to 32 bit and then attenuating that? I know that this approach works well in hardware. However, for whatever reason, I have yet to hear a software volume control that does not degrade the SQ in use. You may be right that the cause is down to associated software, drivers etc. I don't know.
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
If you upsample from 16 to 64 bit and then reduce the volume significantly you’re still dropping bits
Important considerations are the type of dither that is used by the digital volume control, and the precision with which it is computed. Heavy attenuation without dither is pretty grim, but I think most players and DACs now do a good job. JRiver uses 32 bit arithmetic and gives you a choice of TPDF and bit exact dither, Audacity and sox have all sorts of options, I think the ESS chip does TPDF, and so on. Last time I had a DAC and a decent pre-amp in the same room I couldn’t hear any advantage to having a preamp, so I sold the preamp. If a digital volume control throws away bits does an analogue volume control throw away electrons?
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
yes it does, but since there are 0.625x10^19 electrons per volt, there’s still a fair amount of resolution spare.