1. Things you need to know about the new ‘Conversations’ PM system:

    a) DO NOT REPLY TO THE NOTIFICATION EMAIL! I get them, not the intended recipient. I get a lot of them and I do not want them! It is just a notification, log into the site and reply from there.

    b) To delete old conversations use the ‘Leave conversation’ option. This is just delete by another name.
    Dismiss Notice

The John Westlake/Lakewest MDAC/FDAC, VFET and Detox

Discussion in 'audio' started by Tony L, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. nostromo

    nostromo pfm Member

    I'm hoping/guessing JW will only request money on an individual basis i.e. when a sponsors' individual unit is tailor made and ready to ship.
  2. adamdea

    adamdea You are not a sound quality evaluation device

    Well I guess we can only wait and see what happens. But it seems a very odd way of proceeding.
  3. Rune

    Rune pfm Member

    It is probably bets to just let JW do it in the order he is happy with. Demanding something else will only complicate matters more. We never had any success doing that in past.
  4. Timcat

    Timcat pfm Member

    I have a great deal of sympathy with what you say about going to law, but there are many practical difficulties in doing this. Firstly, litigating across national boarders is complex and generally difficult (i.e., expensive). With the exception of a few, who are in for thousands, most of us have not lost enough to justify the expense of such litigation. Litigation by a large group of joint plaintiffs is fraught with difficulties; for example, getting all to agree on a course of action would be a nightmare (a bit like herding cats!), all must sign up to meet the costs (maybe each in proportion to their investment) and the instructed lawyer would need to be assured of getting paid without the potential problem of having to recover costs from a large number of individuals.

    Had JW been in the UK, where most of the potential plaintiffs are likely to reside, then litigation would have been a lot easier, either as a joint action before the High Court or as many individual actions brought before the County Courts. Any one of us could have done the latter on our own and at low cost.

    I think we all know that you are not responsible in any way for JW's bad behaviour. I personally do not view this as a blight on pfm or on your good name; there is one bad guy here and it's not you Tony!
  5. torstoi

    torstoi pfm Member

    Nostro Uomo, italian for : 'our man'
    Is there any reason for a deeper knowledge that JW in person will build and test every unit..?
    Anyhow..your guesses are the most specific I've heard in a while.
  6. nostromo

    nostromo pfm Member

    I'm afraid they're only guesses and not to be taken as 'specific' in any way. They're based on 'reading between the lines' JW's posts here and on FB over many years. However I did meet John once at the Bristol show about 5/6 years ago and that formed a very favourable impression on me.

    The recent posts here and especially on FB (hundreds!) do demonstrate how much follow-up explaining is required when JW makes an announcement. The communication task is mammoth and would seriously distract someone from their work, not just in replying but thinking through what's been said and how it's being received at the other end.
  7. fred sonnen

    fred sonnen pfm Member

    What a narrow view of things. I admit it is practical. It's nice to be able to shift the "blame" onto one person. Unfortunately, this view overlooks that we, the users have made the feature list longer and longer. For example, I am also very excited about the tube output stage!
    Also, it's being studiously overlooked that the progress of things here has been quite transparent for a while. I can't remember any outcry when, for example, the ESS-DAC solution was buried. The consequence of this is now loudly complained about. Very bad style...

    Unfortunately, it has become quite widespread on the Internet that a vocal minority thinks it can pretend to have an opinion / speak for the majority. Also here that has been practiced vividly by my s.c. "Boysclub". It would perhaps have been up to the operator to contain these excesses and to demand an opinion formation from the majority.
    I can already hear the cries for freedom of speech.... Is clear. Freedom of speech does not mean, however, that a minority massively sabotages a project. So here to observe.

    Again, John is certainly no saint and blameless in the situation. But to dump everything on him is much more than dishonest!
    The handling of the VFET customers is outrageous. I also find it reprehensible that nothing is communicated outside of FB. John himself has promised several times an email notification. Nothing has happened.
    So and now: Open fire ;-)
    EIffel and nostromo like this.
  8. gints

    gints pfm Member

    He bought machine for making boards long time ago when he still was here. Not sure if it still adequate for project, let's hope it is and he can build on it.
  9. nostromo

    nostromo pfm Member

    I fear email correspondence would also distract and overwhelm JW. Hundreds of responses would ensue an email from JW and possibly 200 private conversations would be on-going. It's just not practical for one man (JW) to do all the comms and also everything else imho!

    A forum is a better place as replies are not mandatory....and John has now promised WEEKLY updates on FB and I'm sure someone will be posting those onto here.

    I would suggest to all sponsors, please keep direct communication with JW on FB infrequent and to the point. Asking at length about opinions and leading edge design or component issues is a real distraction. I'm all for constructively helpful communication, but I guess who decides what's constructive, As for personal accounts of monies paid etc. I believe JW (Renata) has a well kept spreadsheet and when the time for you to purchase 'at cost' comes, the exact details can be confirmed then.

    Asking for email correspondence is not a good way to ensure transparency either.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  10. Whaleblue

    Whaleblue Southbound

    ‘Not actually developed’ possibly?
    torstoi and AndyU like this.
  11. torstoi

    torstoi pfm Member

    Being focussed to the very essential is indeed kind of a narrowed view.

    And I'm afraid nobody around here will start pathetically crying for 'freedom of speech',
    as we are not a bunch of stonethrowing, educational-precarious & hysteric women like in Life of Brian
    or 'boysclub' as you seem to prefer to picture it in your fairly simplified view.

    This view would suggest there's some silly crew and you're one of the few
    who have the intellectual & moral high ground and overview in the whole topic.
    I admit that's a nice thought to have, the only problem is..
    It might be wrong.

    Possibly Tony simply got the point
    and you're just running around chasing sunrays.

    Which is precisely why no-one will hit on you, there's a specific human moral code forbidding just that..
    Darren likes this.
  12. sq225917

    sq225917 Bit of this, bit of that

    If anyone thinks feature drift from investor requests has been as issue here, you're wrong. The project has taken the shape the designer wanted from day one, he could have said no at any time. The problem is the endlessness of it, with no targeted specification and no fiscal deadline it'll continue to drift forever. The only thing that'll change that is a 3rd party buying a dac design off him and forcing it to be written on stone, or him going to do his PhD or whatever.
    westsea, Timcat, Darren and 3 others like this.
  13. Spike

    Spike pfm Member

    What utter tosh. I bought a salvaged MDAC case from JW and paid all my instalments for the MDAC2. I never asked for anything other that what he promised. I never asked for more features. I wanted what he promised many years ago. And yes I feel I can have an opinion and express it in no uncertain forms as I believe that I was conned. I honestly do not think I will ever receive my MDAC2. We’ve being here so many times before. It’s just round the corner de ja but. Every time I watch Snatch and Turkish asks how long for the sausages and the reply is always “5 minutes Turkish”.
    Your accusation of “sabotage” is an insult. I’ve never sabotaged the development. I want the development finished so I can get my final product.
    Timcat, Mission75, Lowand and 3 others like this.
  14. Space is the Place

    Space is the Place pfm Member

    Fred, it's simple really, this is a checklist of what has happened in 6, or is it 7 years now? I'm no longer sure.

    1. Investors put in 100k in good faith that they'd receive a product ✔

    2. JW built a lab ✔

    3. SQ got some boots for JW's wife, which he now wears himself when his wife goes out

    4. JW developed real products for other manufacturers which you helped fund ✔

    5. Investors saw a return on their investment in the shape of a Dac or Amps ✖

    That there are people who've invested thousands, that there's been no communication with them and that some might not live to see any return on their investment is simply wrong.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
    Sibbers, Timcat, Darren and 9 others like this.
  15. booja30

    booja30 pfm Member

    6. Profit ???
  16. Rosewind

    Rosewind Lost in Translation

    I don't know why John never sat down to produce the boards. He could have done that at every fork of the road - he has had plenty of time. He could have made a standard DAC board with the possibility of an extension board in a second box. To make one working prototype like Jez Arkless did with his various iterations of the Arkless stages would not be impossible to have done at all. Yet the well-known designer and general good man that John is, never followed up on any of the promises made to me or the other investors, such as Rune and Fred Sonnen.

    The only person that profited from this was John, who had funds available ...
    - to feed his family,
    - to develop and test his own ideas - be they related or unrelated to our project
    - to buy components and those precious VFETS for the 5, then 10, then 20 then (how many?) VFET mono amps promised to an ever-expanding number of buyers
    - to buy test equipment and production equipment - although I remember John complaining that he had to take money from his pension pot to fund some machinery
    - to work for the likes of Project and that other firm that basically marketed a version of "Detox" (Stack Audio?)
    - to keep his mind off the reality of why he keeps obfuscating, procrastinating and postponing delivery of what was paid for long ago and promised to be delivered within a year from payment.

    Renata - if she is still in the picture - must surely know what is going on.
  17. Hawtin

    Hawtin pfm Member

    Dude is rambling again. Just swallow your pills and try not to get too excited.
    Darren likes this.
  18. Rosewind

    Rosewind Lost in Translation

    Dude has paid in £3200.
    PhilofCas and Darren like this.
  19. Stuart Frazer

    Stuart Frazer pfm Member

    Anyone got a salvaged MDAC position with John to sell on?

    Or just a non-working MDAC?
  20. Spike

    Spike pfm Member

    Are you after just the MDAC or the MDAC and the payments?

Share This Page


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice