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The John Westlake/Lakewest MDAC/FDAC, VFET and Detox

Discussion in 'audio' started by Tony L, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. sam_cat

    sam_cat C'est Crounchifique!

    We would probably be onto MDac 4 if that was the case...
  2. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    One thing possibly worth noting is manufacturing costs have dropped exponentially since this project started. Really through the floor. I have an interest in retro computing (old 8 bit machines such as the BBC Micro, ZX Spectrum etc) and many people in that community are using companies like PCBWay in China for manufacturing 3rd party add-on and peripheral boards, even for complete replacement computer mainboards etc. This company can turn a board design into quality product within a matter of days for a very low unit cost and are prepared to work to very low volume numbers (just tens). They even offer component fitting should you wish. As such I would have sincerely hoped moving the manufacturing at least to a working board stage should be very easily feasible, especially with simpler stuff like the power amps.
  3. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    Tony, I think John was suspicious of using Chinese manufacturers because of fake/substituted components. He purchased a machine to populate the boards himself a couple of years ago.
  4. StephenB

    StephenB Pointy birds...........

    I am also aware of the Chinese influence on modern manufacturing, I now work for a company who has a manufacturing facility in China employing 30 people

    I recently invited quotations for an assembly module in a larger automation project I am designing and managing, the local CNC vendors were £2-2.5k with a 6-8 week lead time, a contact in China manufactured same parts for £800, and even allowing for shipping was on my desk in 4 weeks

    now if I'm being brutally honest the finish was not quite as good, but perfectly adequate for function and use.
  5. misterdog

    misterdog Not the canine kind

    One of the biggest problems to date has been the number of options people want.
    CD player, Streamer, Phono stage, DSP. Etc.

    Some don't want a product without whatever, while others do not wish to pay for something they do not require.

    In the initial list for the MDAC upgrade, on the requirements I included for an Espresso machine.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
    Garrard 401 and Joe like this.
  6. Rune

    Rune pfm Member

    And that that it should be crammed into the original MDAC chassis, because the chassis had to meet a cheap price point.

    If just we could see the completion of the MDAC 1.5 that would be a good start and it will most likely satisfy a big group of which probably still have the original MDAC that can be used as a donor.

    My guess is that the majority of the rest group really do not want MDAC2 in MDAC chassis but wants FDAC in a bigger chassis. (many of us sold the MDAC for that reason)
    amershamman and Rosewind like this.
  7. Timcat

    Timcat pfm Member

    In an ideal world, I would like an FDAC in a bigger chassis, but I am just not confident that it will ever see the light of day, even 5 years from now. Therefore, if it does materialise, I shall probably take an MDAC 1.5 and then run for the hills. That is if it doesn't cost too much on top of my initial £450 investment. Fortunately, I still have an old MDAC somewhere to use as a donor (it died of bloated capacitor syndrome).
  8. sam_cat

    sam_cat C'est Crounchifique!

    The MDAC 1.5 would be a very good start.

    I did want the FDAC (2 of), but after waiting 6 years and seeing little in the way or progress my confindence that anything would appear is near totally gone, life has moved on massively (as has my system) and having to take something now vs wait even longer for something that I now have doubts will ever exist is a very tough decision. Additionaly costs if I go with the cheaper option as I would have to source chassis from somewhere.

    Its a shame, because if something had been delivered in a timely fashion that was better than the MDAC at the time it would have sold well, and given a lot of confidence and would have funded progression to MDAC 3/FDAC..
  9. GWM

    GWM Lost in the 70's

    Just checked on Facebook ,John has MDAC1.5 proto boards and is testing the analogue outlet stage ,some issues with MOSFET noise performance for those with no access.
  10. killie99

    killie99 pfm Member

    Can someone post on John's Facebook page that he NEEDS to come here and be upfront and honest with where he is with these projects and give a commitment as to how he will get to an acceptable endpoint?
  11. Ian M

    Ian M pfm Member

    I put this brief message on Facebook, didn’t want to appear too moany.

    John, you are probably aware that the original thread on pink fish is now locked and a new one started where only only sponsors can post. Can you please visit and give an update on the status of all projects for people without a Facebook account. Take a look at post number #90. Thanks.
  12. Obi1

    Obi1 Swedish HiFi enthusiast

    1 kit of "Fusion resistors" cant remember the sum, can someone help?
    100 GBP 1. Instalment
    370 GBP Salvaged M-DAC (stored at Johns place)
    100 GBP 2. Instalment
    100 GBP 3. Instalment
    100 GBP 4. Instalment
    50 GBP Detox Instalment
  13. sam_cat

    sam_cat C'est Crounchifique!

    Just had a look, I dont appear to have access to the facebook group anymore.
    Not sure if its something I have done.
  14. Coll

    Coll pfm Member

    From my point of view when I placed my order it was for a full width FDAC with CD drawer and various inputs and outputs and it was suitable as a preamp. The height was going to be I believe 88mm plus feet which would fit in my cabinet.
    This is exactly what I required but since then it has changed to something completely different and at as far as I can see twice the cost.
    As I said in my earlier post I can no longer afford to pay any balance let alone the increased cost.
    Further if I were able to afford it it would no longer be what I required and no good to me anyway.
    I feel I should receive a refund but it does not look as if that will happen either.
    All the money paid was for development costs and it looks to me that John as received plenty for that.
    Any money spent on production equipment should come out of the manufacturing cost and as you all know if you purchase a machine for your factory it isnt for just one job.
  15. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    If you criticise him or his method of working, timescales etc you got blocked, at least that was what happened on the MDAC thread.
  16. mikebirtill

    mikebirtill pfm Member

    For info, from the Lakewest fb page:

    Hi Ian, After the recent inject by PFM moderator, I've had it with PFM. However It would be good to have an idea of how many PFM development sponsors are NOT members of this group so that I can devise a method to keep them updated - we have 175 members here which will be about 90% if not MORE of the development sponsors... I know of 3 PFM members who do not have FB accounts...

    Whats important is to keep communication open with the development sponsors so that they are aware of the development and pending production cycle - but ATM it will not be via PFM.

    Over the week end I'll update here the 3 near term production projects (Detox, MDAC1.5 and MDAC2 / FDAC). I'll start the prototyping of VFEt's once I've started the shipping of MDAC1.5 PCB's.

    I'm concerned about those who might not be included in the loop, so your welcome to forward the info.
  17. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    That's a shame, I did worry when this thread started that it might scare him off altogether and run the risk of people here not being kept in the loop as to the progress.
  18. mikebirtill

    mikebirtill pfm Member

    I think its very sad. I was thinking of getting one of his dacs when it had all settled down . But whilst i still think he is fine engineer, I’m really not happy about the way fellow pink fishers have been treated
    eevo1969 and jansen like this.
  19. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    You can certainly tell him this thread isn’t going anywhere. If I had invested myself I’d now be demanding full accounts be published. I’d want to know exactly where every penny of my money was and on exactly what it had been spent, i.e. what are the recoverable assets or intellectual property produced. No answer? Lawyer time! But that’s just me, how others react is entirely up to them. I’d certainly not let John Westlake call the shots though, this is *your* project, you have paid for it.

    PS Don’t overlook the fact he has thrown project investors out of his locked self-moderated Facebook group. That is not a good look IMHO.
  20. mikeyb

    mikeyb pfm Member

    be interesting to see the total of money invested by members here, but I can't be bothered adding it all up.

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