The Harbeth Super HL5 and M30.1

[Snoflo]

Yeah, the DeVores' sensitivities tend to be a little overstated. I own the Line Magnetic LM-219IA and the DeVores were the first speakers I auditioned. Indeed, if you are sensitive to a projected midrange (it's a little weird) that I have found many full-range / high sensitivity speakers tending to have, the DeVore's may not be your cup of tea. It's the trade-off for getting that 'live' sound. I thought the soundstage more diffuse than I prefer. In the end I went with a pair of Audio Physic speakers. They aren't a poster-child speaker for a SET amplifier, but it's only how they sound that I care about.

 

[sls4321]

Don’t waste your time with the mini Leben amplifier. SHL5+ need 100w+ to really show what they can do. Doesn’t have to be expensive, a Yamaha, Pioneer or Quad would be fine. I really don’t know why Alan Shaw says 25w+, watts are cheap and the bass really tightens up with more power.

 

[DNM]

The O96 has "real" 91dB sensitivity.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/devore-fidelity-orangutan-o96-loudspeaker-measurements

An amusing debate following that review. Interesting to see the differences in FR measurements between the O's being driven by a "digital class-D switching amp" (Blue) and the Shindo (Red) . It would have been interesting to see measurements of the O's being driven by those amps in the same room. In any event, not my bag!

 

[plimpington2]

An amusing debate following that review. Interesting to see the differences in FR measurements between the O's being driven by a "digital class-D switching amp" (Blue) and the Shindo (Red) . It would have been interesting to see measurements of the O's being driven by those amps in the same room. In any event, not my bag!

I assume this is an amp issue not a speaker issue. I TRIED to like the Shindo stuff. I really did. But I just couldn’t. That stuff just doesn’t sound that great to me. To say nothing of the stuff they often play it into (single driver boxes and horned loaded whatevers - as you say, not my bag). The LM219, on the other hand, is fantastic in every way as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Julf]

An amusing debate following that review. Interesting to see the differences in FR measurements between the O's being driven by a "digital class-D switching amp" (Blue) and the Shindo (Red) . It would have been interesting to see measurements of the O's being driven by those amps in the same room. In any event, not my bag!

Uh... In the link you posted, the caption for that graph is "Fig.7 DeVore Fidelity Orangutan O/96, spatially averaged, 1/6-octave response in: AD's listening room (red), JA's listening room (blue)", so the difference is listening rooms, not amps...

 

[DNM]

Possibly, thats why I said it would have been interesting to compare the amps/speaker measurements in the same room.

I wouldn't of expected to see such a big difference in the HF however, especially in the listening room of a well known reviewer...

J Devore's clear disdain for the Devialet made me chuckle.

 

[nicetone]

I’m wondering if it turns out I really like the HL5’s, what will I be missing (or getting) if I take a leap on the M30.1? How do they differ? Prices are pretty comparable.

Judd

I would not want to buy the 30.1 on the basis of hearing the SHL5plus. Also, presumably the 30.1 will soon be superseded by the 30.2 (currently only available as a 40th anniversary model).

Continuing on from the general discussion, the SHL5plus is a two-way, plus a ‘super tweeter’ - does the latter make any real contribution to the sound (even for listeners under the age of 30!) or is it more a marketing feature?

Interestingly, the 30.1/30.2 and 40.2 use the same tweeter, which is different from that in the SHL5plus. The mid range/base unit of the 30.1, 30.2, SHL5plus, and the mid-range driver of the 40.2, are (I understand) the same unit. I wonder what an HL5plus would sound like if the super tweeter were dropped, and the tweeter was changed to that used in the 30.1/30.2/40.2.

 

[banjoman]

I've got a budget Kenwood integrated from the early 90s that I got for about £40 on ebay, and the SHL5Plus sounded really good with this! They did sound better with a ARC LS26 and VTL 150, but the price differential was astronomical. One of the big advantages of Harbeths is that they really can sound great with very modest amps. I don't find this to be the case with Devores, although John Devore has frequently demoed them with a Nait XS in the past. I've always scratched my head about that, because when myself and others have taken decent but modest amps to my friend's house to try with his Devore Nines, they have tended to sound a bit ragged. This may simply be because they are destroyed in comparison with his VTL rig, but my feeling is that the floorstanding Devore Gibbons are qutie picky with amps. That's not to say you can't drive them well with something affordable; someone I know drives them with an Eastern Electric M520 (an amp I also own), but I've not heard this system. The Orangutans are a different design, and I've no experience with them, so can't say. The person to ask about them in the UK would be Graham Tricker.

Just took delivery of a pair of DeVore Gibbon Nines. Was a slightly mad move on my part to import them from South Africa to Germany. But the risk has paid off handsomely and they arrived intact at a rather affordable total cost.
They really come close to the Harbeth mid range magic but a bit more evenly balance across and they do scale pretty well.

You may be right about the amplification - I tried a Conrad Johnson PV12 pre with a Conrad Johnson tube power amp (MV60) and then with a Plinius 200W SS power amp and the difference was clear. Lovely warm tonality and big weighty sound with the all tube set up but somewhat flabby and fuzzy bass. The Plinius tightened up the bass massive and added loads of bottom end detail but I still cant get very deep bass out of the DeVores- which I know is possible

Love your new avatar by the way. Ganesha (along with Goddess Lakshmi) can bring prosperity and intellectual growth at the same time. Stick with him

 

[hifi_dave]

The 30.2 Anniversary should never have been designated a '2' as it is a '1' with the Anniversary upgrades. For some reason, Alan Shaw decided to make the Anniversary M30.1 a M30.2 but has regretted it since.

At this time there are no plans for a Mk.2 M30.

The super tweeter does make a clearly audible difference on the SHL5+.

 

[wacko]

I have heard this as well. Occasionally I hear people say you can run Harbeths on the Leben 300, but mostly I gather you can’t. Perhaps the 600 would work ok, tho. Funny, btw, I’ve spoken to the importer multiple times and the VERY DISTINCT impression I got from him is that the 600 does not sound better than the 300, and that it’s principle advantage is simply more power if you need it for your particular set of speakers.

I will add that my local “Tone Imports” dealer does not feel that the Leben 300 is enough to drive the O/93’s. He prefers the Line Magnetic stuff got that (to be honest, I think the LM 219 is AMAZING). Stereophile tested the O/93 and concluded that the sensitivity was, frankly, a few dB down from 93. (Or, it may have been a few dB down from the 96, I can’t remember now for sure).

Wacko, do you run your Leben with Devore?

The alternative to Harbeth/Graham would be the O/93, but my local dealer won’t let me borrow them. And $8,000 is a TON of money to spend to not get a home dem. Now, regarding the Harbeth, If I love them, it would be easy (and relatively cheap) to press Naim or Rega low/mid range into service. BUT, I am also VERY intrigued by the Accuphase and Luxman integrated amps. They LOOK mid 80’s low-fi, but what I read suggests they are anything but. I’ll be hearing all of it this Saturday.

Judd

No I don't have DeVore but might one day. I have used the Leben with Harbeth P3ESR and it sounded great but better in a smaller room. I have not heard the 600 but there is certainly strong opinion that the 300 is the one to get. Disappointing if DeVore are not honest about sensitivity.
It would be ideal to hear Leben/Line Magnetic and DeVore/Harbeth but not easy to arrange.

 

[Yank]

Disappointing if DeVore are not honest about sensitivity.

Maybe they're just measuring it at the top of the midrange peak?

 

[jair]

..Interestingly, the 30.1/30.2 and 40.2 use the same tweeter, which is different from that in the SHL5plus. The mid range/base unit of the 30.1, 30.2, SHL5plus, and the mid-range driver of the 40.2, are (I understand) the same unit. I wonder what an HL5plus would sound like if the super tweeter were dropped, and the tweeter was changed to that used in the 30.1/30.2/40.2.

I suspect then the SHL5+ would become the Harbeth loudspeaker as sales would rocket.

M40.2 sales would suffer and the M30.1 would become redundant.

 

[Snoflo]

Just took delivery of a pair of DeVore Gibbon Nines. Was a slightly mad move on my part to import them from South Africa to Germany. But the risk has paid off handsomely and they arrived intact at a rather affordable total cost.
They really come close to the Harbeth mid range magic but a bit more evenly balance across and they do scale pretty well.

You may be right about the amplification - I tried a Conrad Johnson PV12 pre with a Conrad Johnson tube power amp (MV60) and then with a Plinius 200W SS power amp and the difference was clear. Lovely warm tonality and big weighty sound with the all tube set up but somewhat flabby and fuzzy bass. The Plinius tightened up the bass massive and added loads of bottom end detail but I still cant get very deep bass out of the DeVores- which I know is possible

Love your new avatar by the way. Ganesha (along with Goddess Lakshmi) can bring prosperity and intellectual growth at the same time. Stick with him

Congrats on your new speakers! I owned the CJ MV60SE and I had a deuce of a time trying to get some PRaT out of it. Is yours okay with that?

 

[banjoman]

Congrats on your new speakers! I owned the CJ MV60SE and I had a deuce of a time trying to get some PRaT out of it. Is yours okay with that?

Its certainly not as fast and punchy as my PLinius but right now I am quite mesmerised by the mid range to worry too much about pace. Need a few weeks to see if I can live with it. What speakers and pre amp were you using with the MV60SE?

 

[Snoflo]

Its certainly not as fast and punchy as my PLinius but right now I am quite mesmerised by the mid range to worry too much about pace. Need a few weeks to see if I can live with it. What speakers and pre amp were you using with the MV60SE?

Hey thanks for your impressions! I thought EH 6SN7 tubes ameliorated things a bit for me. I used a CJ ET3 SE preamp with it. My speakers were Revel F32s, then Sonus faber Liuto monitors. I eventually sold it to an engineer in the US who opened it up to convert the taps to 16 ohms. He mentioned to me the same thing about its pacing.

 

[hifi_dave]

I suspect then the SHL5+ would become the Harbeth loudspeaker as sales would rocket.

M40.2 sales would suffer and the M30.1 would become redundant.

Don't want the 'sales to rocket' any further as they are struggling to keep up with the sales as they are.

The M30.1 wouldn't "become redundant" as some people are not able to or are not prepared to accommodate the larger speaker.

 

[banjoman]

Hey thanks for your impressions! I thought EH 6SN7 tubes ameliorated things a bit for me. I used a CJ ET3 SE preamp with it. My speakers were Revel F32s, then Sonus faber Liuto monitors. I eventually sold it to an engineer in the US who opened it up to convert the taps to 16 ohms. He mentioned to me the same thing about its pacing.

I am going to try a bit of tube rolling.
Are these the Electro Harmonix 6SN7 tubes that you tried?
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/707-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=371532329564

 

[Snoflo]

I am going to try a bit of tube rolling.
Are these the Electro Harmonix 6SN7 tubes that you tried?
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/707-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=371532329564

Yes. However, the gentleman I sold the amp to hated how the tubes sounded and removed them shortly thereafter.