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The Great Obesity Epidemic

venton said:
The higher the fat content the lower the lactose. Full fat creams, butter and cheeses are low in lactose and elicit a much lower insulin response than say bread or pasta.
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It's the same amount of lactose but the presence of protein and fat will affect the profile with the protein causing a spike and the fat extending it over a longer period and smoothing it out. This is why take away pizza is such a problem for T1 diabetics -- it's a stupidly high dose of carbs and the massive amount of (dairy!) fat stretches the load over time so it no longer fits the profile of fast acting insulins and you need two injections a few hours apart.

Unless there is some secret part of how skimming milk adds more lactose :)
 
merlin said:
It's advice nothing more

I don't expect people to listen - very few want to see evidence based arguments. :)
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I agree with you on that one.

Thanks for the info n the link but I'll stick with the full-fat milk, double cream and being healthy.
 
matthewr said:
Well the link I posted earlier is a large cohort (3,333 people) 15 year study showing that a diet with full fat dairy reduced diabetes risk by over 40%. It's the article all these recent news reports have been based on. Here it is again:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2016/03/22/CIRCULATIONAHA.115.018410.abstract

EDIT: To be clear the study shows that people who consume a lot of dairy fat have a much reduced risk of diabetes. It doesn't say much about other aspects of their diet or lifestyle so one should be careful about drawing too many conclusions.
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Thanks Matthew but I can only get a summary without subscription so it's not convincing for me without full access. In particular I cannot see the casein levels in relation to dairy fatty acids so cannot ascertain whether any of the subjects were dairy free and if so, what their incidence of diabetes was. I'd agree with you that it's difficult to draw conclusions without other aspects of their diet and lifestyles being considered. One thing worth remembering is that fat and protein are likely to reduce the craving for CHO that refined CHO induces. That colours data I would have thought.
 
In my case I am very anti refined carbs. I live a low carb lifestyle. I am probably ketogenic a lot of the time. Therefore cream is one source of fat energy I need. Soy milk is low fat I believe, so no real use. Almond milk is high fat but very expensive.
Whilst I accept there may be a blip in insulin due to caseine, it is nothing compared to the constant insulin production from eating refined carbs three times a day.
This is very easy for me to demonstrate. Every couple of weeks I have a total cheat; refined carbs, dessert, the lot. This is a little insurance policy I use to keep my insulin system working. After such a meal I will gain up to four pounds in weight, which comes off over the next week. Insulin drives the sugars to fat and stores it away.
Because insulin is a fat storing hormone, I would not lose this weight if caseine was causing long term insulin production, it would keep the fat locked in.
The article showing 40% less diabetes is interesting, in that I very much doubt all those people were living a low carb lifestyle. In the case of eating refined carbs plus full fat dairy, I would expect increase risk of obesity and diabetes, but this isn't the case. Very likely the fat causes them to eat less carbohydrate , and the reduction has a significant benefit.
I believe that lowering refined carbs and increasing dairy fat is far healthier than the current predominant lifestyle of carbs carbs carbs.
In my opinion the so called government diet experts have been, and continue to be very wrong in their advice, and are predominantly to blame for the obesity epidemic.
As an individual, you would have to be overweight in order to test the low carb argument. I was, and it worked.
I accept that I may be taking some small risk by staying low carb long term, but to me my weight is a good indicator of health. I was heading for a stroke, diabetes or heart attack I dare say before, but for me, dairy fat is now my friend. It helps keep me lean, and my blood pressure and lipids are very good. I reject the idea that dairy is driving me to T2 diaberes. Time will tell though.
 
merlin said:
I cannot see the casein levels in relation to dairy fatty acids so cannot ascertain whether any of the subjects were dairy free and if so, what their incidence of diabetes was.
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I'm not sure what you mean. The point of the paper is that those consuming lots of dairy fat, and therefore milk protein, had a statistically significant decrease in T2 diabetes compared to those consuming less. As noted this does not mean we can say "eat plenty of dairy fat and you won't get T2" but only the "need to better understand potential health effects of dairy fat".

I also think you are over, no pun intended, egging the caesin pudding as I suspect it's difficult to eat that much dairy protein without fat to get a really significant effect. People in these studies are generally eating cheesy omelettes not glugging down bodybuilding whey protein shakes.
 
venton said:
I live a low carb lifestyle.[] I accept that I may be taking some small risk by staying low carb long term, but to me my weight is a good indicator of health. I was heading for a stroke, diabetes or heart attack I dare say before, but for me, dairy fat is now my friend. It helps keep me lean, and my blood pressure and lipids are very good.
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The science lags this view for a number of reasons but there is a growing evidence from people like yourself and Brian and increasing papers like the one above as the tectonic plates of science shift. And from a personal point of view if you make a change in lifestyle that drops your weight and blood pressure and improves your lipids and this reduces or reverses T2 and/or the attendant risks of heart attack and stroke then that's all you need to know. There is a risk that you might kill yourself in another way we do not know about but that's more than offset by definitely not killing yourself in a well understood way.

venton said:
Whilst I accept there may be a blip in insulin due to caseine, it is nothing compared to the constant insulin production from eating refined carbs three times a day.
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Yes. Although note that the argument is that the protein with the refined carbs is worse in terms of insulin response than just the refined carbs. All my experience as a T1 -- and remember I do about 3 or 4 insulin response experiments a day -- is that one should eat less refined carbs, eat more fibre and eat carbs in combination with a reasonable balance of protein and fat.
 
matthewr said:
All my experience as a T1 -- and remember I do about 3 or 4 insulin response experiments a day -- is that one should eat less refined carbs, eat more fibre and eat carbs in combination with a reasonable balance of protein and fat.
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This is very interesting thanks. My instinct was that fat with carbs would be doubly bad, but my experience is it isn't so straightforward as that. When I've had a 'cheat' meal which included fat, protein and carbs, my response was often less than I expected.
Good news about T1 discoveries.
 
matthewr said:
I'm not sure what you mean. The point of the paper is that those consuming lots of dairy fat, and therefore milk protein, had a statistically significant decrease in T2 diabetes compared to those consuming less. As noted this does not mean we can say "eat plenty of dairy fat and you won't get T2" but only the "need to better understand potential health effects of dairy fat".

I also think you are over, no pun intended, egging the caesin pudding as I suspect it's difficult to eat that much dairy protein without fat to get a really significant effect. People in these studies are generally eating cheesy omelettes not glugging down bodybuilding whey protein shakes.
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I'd like to see the article in full before I draw any conclusions Matthew - that's all.

The science is indeed all over the shop when it comes to areas that are less clear cut than T1 IME. The lipids vs CHO discussion needs to take place with a clear understanding of the subject's energy requirements throughout the day in order to ascertain accurately what hormonal response will occur to any intake of food IME. There are so many variables that to suggest one course of action is best for all is questionable at best. Given the. Duration of the test in question, it would be interesting to note the environmental conditions and stress levels of each participant.
 
matthewr said:
Well the link I posted earlier is a large cohort (3,333 people) 15 year study showing that a diet with full fat dairy reduced diabetes risk by over 40%. It's the article all these recent news reports have been based on. Here it is again:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2016/03/22/CIRCULATIONAHA.115.018410.abstract

EDIT: To be clear the study shows that people who consume a lot of dairy fat have a much reduced risk of diabetes. It doesn't say much about other aspects of their diet or lifestyle so one should be careful about drawing too many conclusions.
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I missed your earlier post, matthew. Sorry and thanks for posting again.
 
I did some cynical, half-pissed fatty counting, sitting outside a bar on Princes Avenue, Hull, watching the world go by last night.

I reckon 3 out of 5 women under 30 years old are fat and 1 in 5 men. By the time they get to middle age it looks like the men start catching the women up with a ratio of about 3 in 4 women and 2 in 4 men being fat.

For the young girls, why is this happening? It seemed about even stevens when I was in my 20s

If my counting is accurate, I wonder why this is so.
 
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