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The Great Obesity Epidemic

Discussion in 'off topic' started by gassor, Nov 27, 2014.

  1. lrt1367

    lrt1367 pfm Member

    But where is your proof of this, have you experienced any of this for yourself or read it on google search, you should know there is a lot of rubbish written on google, I have experienced this & can assure you it is nothing like is being described in this thread, for some to suggest it isn't even real when I have gone through what I have for 30 years as have thousands of others is very insulting as you can imagine. I have seen friends jump to their deaths because of this illness & have lost some very special people close to me.

    This thread has unfortunately turned into what a lot of threads do on here, the usual bashing of a subject, unfortunately this subject affects peoples lives unlike silly threads regarding hifi cables, some thought & respect should be put into posts when a delicate subject such as this is discussed I think, I would certainly show this if I were dealing with this. I don't want any sympathy for my illness just a little tact maybe as tony L suggested.

    Surely you & others here could show some respect here, I imagine if others have read some of the posts here & are suffering from this horrible condition, they will feel as I do. It feels like users are treating this with the disrespect a lot of other threads receive, I wonder if this would be discussed this way if it were regarding a physical disability, I doubt it, I have experienced this kind of ignorance all my life, in our enlightened times I expected people to be a little more tolerant of this subject but so far it seems not, I am not being rude or disrespectful of peoples views but please do not suggest this condition is a fake illness, if all who claim this had suffered with it you would feel very differently.
     
  2. lrt1367

    lrt1367 pfm Member

    Thank god for a sensible post & I will certainly be taking your attitude towards a lot of the nonsense stating this illness doesn't exist. Thank you, Cannot take another second of reading such low insulting statements.
     
  3. merlin

    merlin Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.

    Maybe you could look at yourself and try to both show respect for the opinions of others and try to not prejudge people of whom you have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever.

    Respect is a two way street I'm afraid, and just because there are those who express opinions you disagree with does not give you the right to tell them to be silent or to label them as clueless. It seems you feel the need to do this in a remarkable percentage of your PFM posts. Mods might take note?

    As I say, looking into yourself is important. Is English your second language by chance?
     
  4. jackbarron

    jackbarron Chelsea, London

    I am training to be an Analytical Psychologist. It's a school which was started by Carl Jung after he stopped collaborating with Sigmund Freud in 1913.

    Analytical Psychology is a talking therapy. I don't personally know any psychotherapist who says that depression is self-inflicted or that medication doesn't work in the short term, including SSRIs.

    An Analytical Psychologist helps a client, via psychotherapy, to reestablish a healthy relationship with the unconscious. Depression is one of the neuroses that we deal with. This usually takes years to achieve and is relatively expensive. A person who successfully goes through this process doesn't need medication.

    Having said that, the Pharma industry is massive and doctors sometimes prescribe drugs for things that don't need medication, especially in America. They also appear to get dinners, trips and kickbacks from the Pharma companies, which calls into question their prescribing.

    Far from being non-addictive, some people can have real problems getting off SSRIs, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be prescribed. They are a lot less addictive than benzodiazepines.

    There is no doubt that SSRIs and other drugs can help people with serious depression, some of whom will be considering suicide to escape their inner torment.

    The big growth area in the NHS is in mindfulness meditation. This and CBT have taken off, while talking therapies have been shoved aside.

    As a quick fix, medication can definitely help people with depression. I don't think a placebo would work in most cases.

    Jack
     
  5. Blzebub

    Blzebub Banned

    Those days are gone, very lucky to get a biro these days. But keep banging the old worn-out conspiracy drum, Jack. Obviously, analytical psychologists are all very saintly people.
     
  6. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    As am I.

    I'm sure that 'Big Pharma' will continue to invest in, and push drugs for everything. Let's balance that though. There's emerging evidence of a vaccine for Ebola and the Flu jab plus the assorted stuff given to kids has saved zillions of lives. Smallpox is gone.. etc. It' not all bad.

    I've never heard SSRIs etc., described as Placebos. They are powerful drugs which have a proven effect upon the levels of Serotonin. That said, I have no idea whether they really can lift mood in anything other than a superficial way. After a brush with them many years ago I can't say one way or the other, but I can say that I am very intolerant of the side effects. Others may cope better.

    For those who aren't familiar, there are a range of Antidepressants about. They can have stimulant or sedative side effects and can therefore be chosen to suit either agitated or unresponsive patients.

    ISTM that Antidepressants, and/or Tranquillizers, which are a very different animal indeed, can be used to start treatment, or to throw a lifeline to someone who is fragile and bewildered. But mostly the 'cure', or at least the control of the illness, comes through other therapies.

    Years ago, I went down with a deep depression coupled with severe anxiety and full on panic attacks. (I had to take myself to A&E a couple of times because the panic was so intense.)

    The main resolution came with time, but also with assorted therapies including CBT and a very good anxiety management course.

    For many years the above plus the occasional resort to very low and intermittent doses of Diazepam saw me happy.

    Then, for no reason I can properly pinpoint.. it all came back earlier this year.
    I have refused antidepressants. I have also probably taken even less Diazepam than while I was 'well', because even that seems to no longer be my friend. We had a spate of 'unexpected' (As in.. not just elderly people passing in the proper order of things) bereavements last year, and my daughter also had a very rough time and I 'retired'. Possibly that lot.. who knows?

    I have just spent several hours desperately trying to beat down panic because my youngest didn't confirm she had made it to the airport for a flight back from Barcelona. I tracked the flight all the way and then sat wondering how long it would take for her to text me to say she had landed.. but with a nagging fear that she hadn't even boarded the plane... Goes against all logic and evidence. but that's the nature of the beast.

    Now she's finally in a Taxi on her way from Manc to here and I am just about holding off thoughts of RTAs etc.

    This shit is indeed 'all in the mind', but no sane person would volunteer for it.

    All I learned about positive thinking, relaxation etc., all those years ago seems lost. It's as if I'd suddenly forgotten to ride a bike and we all know that doesn't happen.

    Currently awaiting first appointment with somebody who may be able to help me press the reset button.

    Mull


    My next mission is to look up Mindfulness. I have no idea what it means though I could guess.
     
  7. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

  8. Greg

    Greg 2t5b

  9. Paul R

    Paul R pfm Member

    Can you define 'Mindfulness' well enough that a study could be done into its effectiveness at combatting mental illness?

    Because it looks like tosh to me.

    Paul
     
  10. Greg

    Greg 2t5b

    I'd suggest your conclusion is premature.
     
  11. merlin

    merlin Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.

    Mull,

    Sorry to hear about your troubles and hope you find a way to progress without recourse to medications. I always think that Diazepam still leaves people feeling down and depressed, they just don't give a **** that they are :)

    I think a lot of people really need someone rather than something to help them through difficult times and to put them on the road to recovery. Hoping your appointment provides that.

    As the article I linked to is long and many probably haven't read it, I'll quote from it if I may to give you and others an idea of what some professionals are saying about anti depressants.

    It's interesting in my view and important. We all too readily accept the diagnosis of supposed mental health professionals when the evidence to support their proposed treatments is sketchy at best. There is little doubt that a large number of people are unhappy in modern society. The question for me is whether this is a symptom of illness or of society.
     
  12. Greg

    Greg 2t5b

    Now I'm at a kompewter, for Paul (or anyone else interested):
    Suggested intro reading:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness-based_cognitive_therapy

    http://oxfordmindfulness.org/

    http://www.umassmed.edu/cfm/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn

    Prof. Mark Williams on Mindfulness
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAy_3Ssyqqg

    An example study:
    "Antidepressant Monotherapy versus Sequential Pharmacotherapy and Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy, or Placebo, for Relapse Prophylaxis in Recurrent Depression"

    Abstract

    Context

    Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT) is a group-based psychosocial intervention designed to enhance self-management of prodromal symptoms associated with depressive relapse.

    Objective

    To compare rates of relapse in remitted depressed patients receiving MBCT against maintenance antidepressant pharmacotherapy, the current standard of care

    Design

    Patients who met remission criteria following 8 months of algorithm informed antidepressant treatment were randomized to either: Maintenance Antidepressant Medication (M-ADM), MBCT or placebo (PLA) and were followed for 18 months.

    Setting

    Outpatient clinics at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, Toronto and St. Joseph’s Healthcare, Hamilton.

    Participants

    One hundred sixty patients aged 18 to 65 meeting DSM-IV for major depressive disorder with a minimum of 2 past episodes. Of these, 84 achieved remission (52.5%) and were assigned to one of the 3 study conditions.

    Interventions

    Remitted patients either discontinued their antidepressants and attended eight weekly group sessions of MBCT, continued on their therapeutic dose of antidepressant medication or discontinued active medication onto placebo.

    Main Outcome Measure

    Relapse was defined as a return, for at least 2 weeks, of symptoms sufficient to meet the criteria for major depression on Module A of the SCID.

    Results

    Intention to treat analyses revealed a significant interaction between the quality of acute phase remission and subsequent prevention of relapse in randomized patients (p = .03). Among unstable remitters (defined as 1 or more HRSD >7 during remission) patients in both MBCT and M-ADM showed a 73% decrease in hazard compared to PLA (p = .03), whereas for stable remitters (all HRSD ≤ 7 during remission) there were no group differences in survival. Findings remained significant after accounting for the effects of past depressive episodes on relapse.

    Conclusion

    For depressed patients who are unwilling or unable to tolerate long term maintenance antidepressant treatment, MBCT offers equivalent protection from relapse."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3311113/
     
  13. Daniel Quinn

    Daniel Quinn Banned

    I am struggling to appreciate what your point is .

    Diagnosis and treatment efficacy are not the same thing . Mental illness is defined in accordance with agreed criteria evaluated in interview and observation .

    The name given to the collective manifestation of the symptoms is largely irrelevant .Are you suggesting the symptoms are not real .

    It may be true that what mental symptoms the state chooses to make its concern is a matter of power, politics and money but that does not make the symptoms any less real .

    Just because there is an element of social construction in the definition and diagnosis of mental illness does not make it any less real than say cancer . The effects and consequences are what they are .

    You seem to repeatedly want to collapse mental illness in to a state of unhappiness , this is not correct or helpful .

    And this sentence “The question for me is whether this is a symptom of illness or of society.”

    Does not make sense . It obvious that a persons mental illness will in some way be causally connected to the society they live in .
     
  14. auric

    auric pfm Member

    Wonder what the total cost of mental illness is to the State when prescriptions, staff wages, loss of taxes from those suffering and unable for the moment to contribute to the State and all other costs are considered? May make a juicy target for those that see it a low hanging fruit that can be plucked and cut from the budget but then what will be the next category of illness to face a cut in funding?
     
  15. gassor

    gassor There may be more posts after this.


    Placebos work with a range of physical conditions as well as depression. Placebos cannot be looked at in relation to mental illness alone.
     
  16. auric

    auric pfm Member

    IIRC a whole industry has been built upon homeopathy and some may well feel that it is just one big placebo.
     
  17. Daniel Quinn

    Daniel Quinn Banned

    The point is , that it supposedly an investment to save money and assist societal functioning .
     
  18. auric

    auric pfm Member

    Alas some see it as a cost rather than an investment in the future:(
     
  19. merlin

    merlin Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.

    I agree wholeheartedly Gassor. The power of the subconscious is remarkable indeed. It's just a shame that we currently potentially have expensive placebos rather than investing in creating an inexpensive one IMHO.
     
  20. Daniel Quinn

    Daniel Quinn Banned

    What physical conditions do placebos work with ? The only one i know is IBS and that as a psychological element to it .
     

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