The Chord DAC bandwagon

[Amber Audio]

That’s what I thought but apparently they are now a DAC.

For the recently born, R2R means a type of digital to analogue converter, as I understand it this method is more accurate and has fewer problems with higher resolution files, should theoretically sound better than the other types in use, but that’s not a given.

Someone who’s totally clued/technical will be along to describe it properly.

R-2R Digital-to-Analogue Converter, or DAC, is a data converter which use two precision resistor to convert a digital binary number into an analogue output signal proportional to the value of the digital number​

 

[Spraggons Den]

As a professional musician, I can say that my experience has been quite different. I’ve found recording/mixing engineers to be generally quite concerned with how the performing musicians (even lowly hired-gun sidemen like myself) feel about the sound he or she is getting. If the musician feels that their personal sound is not being well represented, the engineer will usually take serious steps to fix whatever the musician isn’t happy with. I’ve done a lot of recording, mostly as a sideman, and I can’t think of one instance where I’ve been barred from the control room, or discouraged from voicing my opinion on the sound or mix.

As for the topic at hand, I own a Qutest and a Mojo (both quite a stretch on a musician’s budget!) and I like Chord DACs specifically because I feel that I get a lot of realism from them, particularly fast transients like drum hits. As a drummer, I feel that I’m very intimately familiar with what a snare drum sounds like, hit at various dynamics. I wasn’t at any Blue Note recording sessions in the 50s or 60s, so I can’t claim to know "what the artist intended." But I’m fairly confident that I know what Art Blakey or Elvin Jones’ snare drum should sound like, and the feeling I’d get from sitting in it’s proximity. My Chord DACs reproduce that sound and feeling for me better than any other DAC I’ve tried, although I admit I haven’t heard as many as some here.

Seems like an important post and it vindicates Chord’s approach to DACs.

 

[Nodder]

The vast majority of DACs are based on the same, very capable chipsets. Of these manufacturers they'll give you all sorts of reasons why their product is better than the others (special attention paid to the PSU/output stage/circuit design etc etc) but the reality is that they will measure and perform exactly as the chipset designer intended, *unless* they've made a monumental mess up in their implementation... Any differences that do exist in the measured performance will be totally irrelevant to the listener, and swamped by the realities of listening to music (the distortions added by their speakers will be many orders of magnitude greater than the differences between DACs).

In order to stand out in such a market, they have to resort to such statements, but to be fair, they are selling and hats off to them for trying. So long as they don't tell outrageous lies about their or other people's products, i've no issue as they have just as much right to be a success as the established players.

The 'we use FPGA' DAC makers can at least say they aren't straight up copying reference implementations. Saying that, the algorithms they are using will be pretty standard as it's well established science. I'm actually contemplating buying an FPGA board and writing a DAC implementation myself as a fun lockdown project. Once complete I could publish the source and anyone could build one. Might be fun to experiment with. I'll have a bit of a dig and see if there are other examples of this out in freeware land.

Please do inform us in the case that you end up working through that project.

 

[DimitryZ]

For the recently born, R2R means a type of digital to analogue converter, as I understand it this method is more accurate and has fewer problems with higher resolution files, should theoretically sound better than the other types in use, but that’s not a given.

Someone who’s totally clued/technical will be along to describe it properly.

R-2R Digital-to-Analogue Converter, or DAC, is a data converter which use two precision resistor to convert a digital binary number into an analogue output signal proportional to the value of the digital number​

I think R2R DAC implementation may sound better, but will certainly have much higher challenge with higher resolution files.

Trimming the resistors to the super precise values AND keeping them at a very same temperature inside the chassis is really challenging.

 

[Purité Audio]

The more accurate the R2R implementation is the more like SD it will sound.
Keith

 

[Octavian]

Seems like an important post and it vindicates Chord’s approach to DACs.

It does not. It is anecdotal evidence based on sighted listening.

 

[tuga]

Is it me, or are the Chord range of DACs just getting incredible respect from audiophiles everywhere? I can't find a bad word said against their products - only excellent reviews from magazines, YouTube videos, forums, they are very well liked!

You shouldn't really pay much attention to reviews. They'll cost you.

 

[Spraggons Den]

It does not. It is anecdotal evidence based on sighted listening.

For sure it’s subjective but he is a bit of an expert in this field and his opinion counts for more than yours or mine for example.

 

[Octavian]

For sure it’s subjective but he is a bit of an expert in this field and his opinion counts for more than yours or mine for example.

It does not, for aforementioned reasons.

 

[Spraggons Den]

the important thing is to enjoy the music.

 

[nostromo]

The more accurate the R2R implementation is the more like SD it will sound.
Keith

So an R2R design can never sound/measure better than a good SD design such as the Soncoz SGD1?... that's a typically bold statement which I find interesting.

 

[sq225917]

That an r2r cannot measure as well as the best DS dac is simply a matter of mathematics and resistor precision. Good sound on the other hand is a matter of personal taste.

 

[Heckyman]

Interested to hear your impressions when it arrives.

First impressions of the Qutest simply connected to the Mac mini M1 via an Oyaide USB cable, then on to Sugden ANV-50 and ATC 19's: pretty good overall!

Certainly nothing unnatural, forced or bright, quite the opposite in fact. It feels like it was designed to just deliver the recorded music without deliberately putting its own spin on things. I like that.

However, compared to the mini's own headphone jack (my current reference), it's not "night and day" better — I would need extended listening to tease out any differences and even establish a firm preference. For sure none of my family will notice a change of sound quality!

I suspect the Qutest may end up the winner, as I have the full gamut of tweaks lined up ready to throw at it: Mac mini upsampling to 768khz (and/or 384khz on co-ax (!) via the Denafrips Hermes DDC), Sean Jacobs DC3(+) LPSU, better cabling than is possible with the headphone jack..

Prior to the Mac mini I had an R2R DAC, the Aqua La Voce S3 with the Allo Pi set up. This was a very enjoyable DAC that could keep me captivated for hours! Unfortunately I can't provide a comparison as I'd already sold it before I got the mini.

 

[Chunk McDaniel]

Don't mix up measurements with what we hear as music. Everything that equates to a good musical presentation cannot be measured by a piece of lab equipment and plotted on a graph. Some things cannot be measured and everyones perception of what they hear can be wildly different. While measurements tell us how a dac chip, pfga or r2r ladder performs with certain fixed criteria it does not tell the whole story or give a complete picture. Our ears and emotions fill in the blanks.

 

[eastone]

First impressions of the Qutest simply connected to the Mac mini M1 via an Oyaide USB cable, then on to Sugden ANV-50 and ATC 19's: pretty good overall!

Certainly nothing unnatural, forced or bright, quite the opposite in fact. It feels like it was designed to just deliver the recorded music without deliberately putting its own spin on things. I like that.

However, compared to the mini's own headphone jack (my current reference), it's not "night and day" better — I would need extended listening to tease out any differences and even establish a firm preference. For sure none of my family will notice a change of sound quality!

I suspect the Qutest may end up the winner, as I have the full gamut of tweaks lined up ready to throw at it: Mac mini upsampling to 768khz (and/or 384khz on co-ax (!) via the Denafrips Hermes DDC), Sean Jacobs DC3(+) LPSU, better cabling than is possible with the headphone jack..

Prior to the Mac mini I had an R2R DAC, the Aqua La Voce S3 with the Allo Pi set up. This was a very enjoyable DAC that could keep me captivated for hours! Unfortunately I can't provide a comparison as I'd already sold it before I got the mini.

Thanks for posting that. When you say ‘headphone jack’ do you mean the 3.5mm line output or the optical output? I’m surprised that there isn’t a greater perceived difference between it and the CHORD. I do go back to that output every now and again just to establish a reference but a separate DAC has always been a worthwhile improvement in my system.

 

[darrenyeats]

The distortions of typical DACs are very tiny compared to those of speakers.

If this renders the DAC distortions completely inaudible then every blind test of a DAC ever performed is completely invalid because the speakers scuppered any chance of hearing the DAC differences, no?

I think some digital distortions are anharmonic, and are pernicious even at a low level. Also I think some subtle differences are only noticed when listening long term.

All else being equal, lower distortion is good though.

 

[Heckyman]

Thanks for posting that. When you say ‘headphone jack’ do you mean the 3.5mm line output or the optical output? I’m surprised that there isn’t a greater perceived difference between it and the CHORD. I do go back to that output every now and again just to establish a reference but a separate DAC has always been a worthwhile improvement in my system.

Indeed, 3.5mm line out via a cheapo adaptor to my normal RCA interconnects and analogue input to the amp.

Do you have a new Mac mini? Its headphone jack is a lot better than say, my i9 2019 iMac ... I wouldn't want to listen to that in my system.

It's just a quick first impression...but sometimes when you plug in new gear you just go "whoa" and then feel compelled to go through all your favourites, enjoying them in a way never heard before...I don't get that at all.

For context, I also have a Musical Fidelity V-DAC from 2011 or so in my spares box. If I use that, it's obviously less transparent and even fatiguing after a while. Also an old Sugden AU 51 with the "famous" TDA1541 Phillips multibit DAC chip, this one is much less fatiguing and actually sounds coloured in a pleasant way despite not being as detailed as the Mac/Qutest.

 

[Amber Audio]

It's just a quick first impression...but sometimes when you plug in new gear you just go "whoa" and then feel compelled to go through all your favourites, enjoying them in a way never heard before...I don't get that at all.

That’s what I look for when I get a new piece of kit, doesn’t happen that often, recently the dCS Bartok and Cadenza Bronze both gave me that feeling and the grin when you know you’ve made a good move.

 

[webster]

My experience when I purchased a Qutest was that it needed a while to reveal its qualities fully.

 

[eastone]

That’s what I look for when I get a new piece of kit, doesn’t happen that often, recently the dCS Bartok and Cadenza Bronze both gave me that feeling and the grin when you know you’ve made a good move.

Indeed, 3.5mm line out via a cheapo adaptor to my normal RCA interconnects and analogue input to the amp.

Do you have a new Mac mini? Its headphone jack is a lot better than say, my i9 2019 iMac ... I wouldn't want to listen to that in my system.

It's just a quick first impression...but sometimes when you plug in new gear you just go "whoa" and then feel compelled to go through all your favourites, enjoying them in a way never heard before...I don't get that at all.

For context, I also have a Musical Fidelity V-DAC from 2011 or so in my spares box. If I use that, it's obviously less transparent and even fatiguing after a while. Also an old Sugden AU 51 with the "famous" TDA1541 Phillips multibit DAC chip, this one is much less fatiguing and actually sounds coloured in a pleasant way despite not being as detailed as the Mac/Qutest.

Ah, I see, perhaps that explains it. I have a late 2012 Mac Mini, the last user-upgradeable ones apparently, not that I’ve ever got round to doing so!

I really got that ‘wow’ moment with the Metrum Musette. The Chord was very different for sure, but not for me. I recently got an ifi Zen Dac for the bedroom office, now that was a ‘wow’ moment for a £130 DAC. Really laughably good for the price, if lacking a little in ‘refinement’.