The appeal of retro hifi

[topa]

Why crap?
Who needs a remote? I thought I needed one until I got my Densen (DM10). Never looked back, just set a listening level, and be done with it!

 

[James]

Crap cos I want Danish muscle and Japanese musicality. Why can't I have both?!!

 

[PaulMB]

If you are building a platform, might not a few extra holes drilled in the bottom and top plates not be enough to encourage a natural convection current?

Incidentally, only yesterday afternoon I sold, to a couple of friends who have a restaurant, a Scott A 426 amp, its matching tuner, and a very pretty Nikko FAM something tuner. All working perfectly and sounding lovely, for 30 Euro per piece. Madness, I know, but my flat and my mind were getting too cluttered up.

 

[louballoo]

From the links above:

 

[James]

If you are building a platform, might not a few extra holes drilled in the bottom and top plates not be enough to encourage a natural convection current?

The platform is built. I forgot to take pictures. It has twin fans to force air through the bottom cover that is already perforated to match the top covers.

I don't think it's enough for longevity though, hence the forced cooling, which primarily benefits the power rectification section that gets toasty.

The power transistors are fine. They have their own massive heat-sinks that convect nicely.

 

[ian r]

this ones for sale in china

 

[andyoz]

Any retro Pioneer nuts spot these HPM 150...looked mint

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=200905289606

 

[Yank]

I don't think it's enough for longevity though, hence the forced cooling, which primarily benefits the power rectification section that gets toasty.

I wonder if rectifiers in TO-220 packages would divert some of the heat away from the pc board?

 

[busb]

Classic women rock too Hi-Fi never had any dignity . Old basterds and crooks all along.
The thing is (it applies to women as well ) that they were designed to please not to torture or be a tool for sado macho audiopohools chasing the sound of one clapping hand ..

PMSL!

 

[James]

I wonder if rectifiers in TO-220 packages would divert some of the heat away from the pc board?

Dunno, but that toasting is coming from the diodes that are mounted a bit too close to the board. My replacements are stood-off to allow better circulation. Now, forced, it should not get any more tanned.

 

[337alant]

Aren't those 3002 diodes only 3A ?
You could replace them with 30A Qspeeds and do away with the snubbers

Alan

 

[sq225917]

Why 30 amp, they have more switching noise, surely the 10 amp would be overkill enough?

 

[337alant]

Ive got 3,6 & 30A Qspeeds and can't detect any difference, anyway I like overkill
Alan

 

[James]

Those diodes have been replaced. I don't know exactly what with, as the work was done by a tech with a fetish for vintage Pioneers. He had them uprated. I can't be sure if it's 10A, 30A or something else without opening them up.

 

[Tenson]

I have a Pioneer SA9800 here and that had a very similar issue, plus a regulator running too hot without a heatsink. Now replaced, sinked and working fine.
Pioneer from this period is generally excellent.

Wasn't that the better measuring of your retro amps when we stuck them on the test bench (floor)?

 

[Disbeliever]

Classic women rock too Hi-Fi never had any dignity . Old basterds and crooks all along.
The thing is (it applies to women as well ) that they were designed to please not to torture or be a tool for sado macho audiopohools chasing the sound of one clapping hand ..

so-called High End is all HYPE

 

[RustyB]

Had RustyB and a friend over this morning. My fears have been confirmed. The Pioneer C-21/M-22 combo is better than the Densen B-250/B-350s, by a majority of 3-0. The Japanese relics sound more palpable, more organic, more musical and more enjoyable than the modern Danes.

As an ex-user of Densen amps and someone aho holds them in some esteem, this was a bit of a shock.

No denying what we all heard though.

What's more, we were listening through the E III's, which were developed with the Densen set-up.

So that's Naim and Densen debunked in the space of a weekend, my Exposure is feeling threatened...

 

[Avonessence]

It's taken me a while to get my ass into gear in housing my vintage Pioneer amps properly, mainly due to the lack of racking real estate. So I haven't heard the C-21 and M-22 as a matched pair properly until today.

In part, I had been perfectly happy with my Densen electronics driving the E-Xs, which require six channels of amplification. The stereo M-22 alone won't do. But since moving the E-IIIR back into place and reverting its wiring for single amping, this presented the perfect opportunity to give the C-21/M-22 a proper listen.

I have three words to describe the thirty-plus year old amps.

• OH

• MY

• GOD

I'm not sure if it's the proper class-A circuit, fully discrete electronics or just my expectation bias, but it sounds remarkably good. Less grainy and less clinical than the very fine Densen B-250/B-350s, but seemingly more self-assured and, well, natural really.

I really REALLY like them with CD replay via Densen B-400XS. I imagine vinyl would sound even more beguiling. But it's early days. They've been playing for maybe 30 minutes. The preamp is stone cold and the power amp is barely up to temperature. More to report tomorrow, and maybe better descriptors than OMG.

All that is shiny, new and sporting the latest in technological advances is not always for the betterment of music replay.
It was interesting that the Enigma turntable from Inspire at Audio World Manchester, was more engaging listen to my ears than the direct drive Monarch (50's/60's technology versus the more modern technology).