advertisement


The (almost) bi-polar nature of Naim's products and customers . . .

The other day, as I was distinctly bored, I wandered over to the Naim forum you remake my, now very distant, acquaintance. As with many of the forums they have a lively ‘show us your system’ thread going on so, as I had some, I posted some pictures of my system and listed the components. My Naim system is all obsolete now compared to their current stuff and all of it has been modified. But nobody accused me of living in the past or butchering historically important components etc. In fact the membership were very kind and supportive - not the behaviour one would expect from people supposedly suffering from ‘bi-polar’* disorder (as the OP puts it).

* I think anyone who actually is suffering from bipolar disorder may well be offended by its use as a pejorative term, as it is in this thread.
 
.....it’s because they were feeling sad for you with your old set-up YNWOAN, trust me, lol! Had you had the temerity to start extolling the virtues of your setup against their latest and greatest Trophy’s from the Naim pricelist they’da been at you like a pack of Hyenas! Pmsl.....
 
YNWOAN said:
The other day, as I was distinctly bored, I wandered over to the Naim forum you remake my, now very distant, acquaintance. As with many of the forums they have a lively ‘show us your system’ thread going on so, as I had some, I posted some pictures of my system and listed the components. My Naim system is all obsolete now compared to their current stuff and all of it has been modified. But nobody accused me of living in the past or butchering historically important components etc. In fact the membership were very kind and supportive - not the behaviour one would expect from people supposedly suffering from ‘bi-polar’* disorder (as the OP puts it).

* I think anyone who actually is suffering from bipolar disorder may well be offended by its use as a pejorative term, as it is in this thread.
Click to expand...

I am not offended.
 
Well I presume we are all adults in here? On that basis what we choose to enjoy and spend our hard earned cash on is our own choice.
Hifi is unique in the sense that there is no definitive measure of performance , classic cars were mentioned kind of levels the field as a fast car is not always a good car many classics were not the premium model of their day by nostalgia can creep in. Now to put in context cars are well measured by performance be it lap times or speed/acceleration. Yet the feel and tactility of certain classic cars makes them more desirable then performance alone. That's before you think of aesthetics.
anyway back to point can only speak of older s/h naim as I have a modest income and could never contemplate the huge prices of the newer kit. I slowly came back to Naim for build quality and ability to keep them going for years to come due to simple rebuildable design. Yes there is a house sound as some say and yes you either like it or you don't. As said if buying used generally the resale makes it a safer investment. Plus the options to alter the sound of older stuff is huge I cant think many other manufacturers there is such a huge aftermarket support.
do I use only naim ? no I try other stuff and mix n match but again that's part of the fun.
 
I think Naim has changed its market position in the last 25 years. Back then the general hifi entry level was £200 or so, premium twice that, Naim entry level (Nait, or CD3) just under twice that again. That's not the case any more, their opening bid is over £1k, probably over £2k. They no longer want to be compared with the Japanese manufacturer s.
 
rontoolsie said:
I started off with a A&R A60E. Gave really good sound, or so I thought.
Until a friend of mine (in 1978) let me borrow his 32/160 (no Snaps, Hicap, Supercap...just the 160-powered 32), and from the very first note I was very taken aback by how MUCH an amp could add or subtract from the performance.
Click to expand...
I had a similar epiphany when I had a demo of a NAIT3, because my hifi sounded duller than dishwater. It turned out that a McLaren A-150b into Linn Nexus made for a truly underwhelming experience. The NAIT3 livened things up considerably, even though it had far fewer watts than the McLaren.
 
This thread does seem a bit like groundhog day but I'm always happy to belt out the same 3 lines of Sonny and Cher.

I think that Naim's current pricing is completely out of whack with the sound on offer. Some of the conversations on their forum are risible. I also have no need of an analogue pre-amp so I'm just not in the target audience any more. I no longer own any Naim kit.

But I do think you can put together up a nice second (third, fourth, nth) hand system based around CB and Olive components based - say a 32.5 or 72 with a 110/140/160/180 and add a cap if you like. It might cost a little more but but you'll sell it on without loss and you can service or repair it without problem. Third party Caps are good cheap upgrades. I've been there and enjoyed it, I might do it again some day. And if I did want an analogue pre-amp maybe I'd go further next time.

I found their forum really useful when putting together such systems and there are (or were) plenty of posters there who love the old kit and can offer useful advice. Some of those people have newer expensive Naim systems which I personally wouldn't buy but that doesn't mean I think they're sheep or cultists. They're just enjoying their systems which are right for them. And frankly many people I know think my interest in audio equipment is pretty strange and risible too.
 
Paul McDonough said:
Hello Timcat,

I'll try to avoid upsetting Naimies here, but one thing you said above interested me, can you tell me which Japanese pre amp worked well with your Naim amplification please? I am looking for a pre amp to go with my Naim power amp and I cannot/will not afford to play the Naim upgradis game. The reason for asking is that I have tried a few non Naim Preamps and they seem to lack the 'gusto**' of the Naim Pres. (** sorry I don't do audio descriptions very well)

Cheers
Click to expand...

Paul,

The Japanese pre was a Denon AVP-A1HD. It was a multi-channel (10) preamp intended for both HiFi and cinema use. It was fully balanced on both the analogue and digital sides, was huge and weighed about 25Kg. I don't think many were sold here and it was a bit of a statement product (not a Statement!). I originally used it only for cinema and had it feeding its front left and right outputs through the pass-through input of the 252 and into a NAP 250. At the time, I integrated my HiFi with my cinema system. The other outputs form the Denon drove a second 250 and a NAP v 145. Just for an experiment I connected my CD player and the front NAP 250 to the Denon and, much to my surprise it sounded better than my 252. The whole family agreed with me on this, so I removed the 252 from the system. Now, at that time (2007-8), I was using first generation Shahinian obelisks, which had metal dome tweeters that could be a bit hard and harsh. The Denon complimented these because it had that typical Japanese high end smooth and highly detailed sound.

I doubt that this pre would be much use to you, if you could find one, given its size, weight and complexity!

Tim.
 
Paul,

I would add that, if you like the Naim sound, why not buy second hand? As I and others have mentioned, Naim is very reliable and easily serviced, so you can buy second hand with confidence.

Tim
 
Naim is like buying a Ford car. You are reassured that everyone will have heard of it. Its well established with good back up and resale, and people can ramble on and on about on forums to their hearts content.

Long live Naim.

You've got to love it.

Or perhaps you don't.
 
Oh boy, yet another Naim bashing thread! Time for me to dust off my underused insincere dissing skills.

I've heard a lot of really bad-sounding audio products over the years, but none worse than Naim! Their products are all completely awful, and the company should shutter its doors immediately. Just imagine the worst possible way to run an audio company, and that is Naim. As one would expect, the company is definitely going down the tubes!

If you read any positive reviews about Naim, you can be sure that they're fake. So, unless you actually looking for poor sounding gear, you should avoid this company like the plague.

In fact, I do not think it is stretching the truth to say we can trace the decline of the entire audio marketplace to the rise of Naim. The only good news is that you can be sure that whatever you buy to replace Naim will sound so much better. Come to think of it, who needs racks of black boxes when a nice smartphone and inexpensive ear buds will do just fine?
 
jobseeker said:
Sorry, I don’t get it. The concept of equal or better performance for less money can be applied to almost any product. Do people who criticise Naim for this appLy it to their shoes, underwear, beans or anything else in existence. I just don’t see the relevance. You buy what you like cos it gives you the feeling you want it to give - all for your own personal reasons. I bet virtually any kit owned by anyone on here can be bettered or equalled by something cheaper - in someone else’s opinion
Click to expand...
I apply the equal or better performance for less money for every major purchasing decision that I make:

housing
cars
holidays
where most of our food shopping is done
clothes
IT equipment
where we usually go for pub dinners
schools for my children
fridges, washing machines etc etc etc

And yes, there is Lindsayt's law of hi-fi ownership:
whatever you buy, you could have gotten something else for less money that would have sounded better.
This reaches its' logical conclusion when you get paid to take away world class audio equipment.

Sonic performance vs price is all relative. There's a huge difference between paying a few hundred smackeroonies extra for a given level of audio performance and paying a few thousand extra. It's not a very good argument for anyone to say that it's OK spending a few thousand extra for Naim equipment because almost everybody else has spent a few hundred extra on non-Naim gear.
 
Minio said:
Naim is like buying a Ford car. You are reassured that everyone will have heard of it. Its well established with good back up and resale, and people can ramble on and on about on forums to their hearts content.

Long live Naim.

You've got to love it.

Or perhaps you don't.
Click to expand...
Naim is nothing like buying a Ford car in any way, shape or form.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top