If I'd laid down £20k on a power amp, I would be rather defensive if someone produced something they said was better.
The (almost) bi-polar nature of Naim's products and customers . . .
- Thread starter Bob Edwards
- Start date
I suppose so, but seems narrow minded to believe that any HiFi component is 'the best' period. The best to my ears will not be the best to everyones, otherwise we'd all be owning very similar systems at each price point.
Besides, the JV designed amps are the best anyway!
Yes, it is, but however close you think you are to the Holy Grail you don't want someone coming along with a better choice. If I'd bought an ace £100k sports car to take on a track day and someone showed up in a £8k kitcar with a bike engine and went blasting past me on every corner I'd feel pretty pissed off. Plenty of hifis will do that.
I think you mean RCA designed.Besides, the JV designed amps are the best anyway!
Absolutely. I'm still traumatized by your short use of Ovators!
I tried to get on with them and only went with them as they were active, but they are difficult to live with, needed 3 x 300dr amp's to really do them justice and then they need a big ish room and lots off space round them.
So decided to move them on and go for a much easier option and cheaper
pjdowns
Living the Hifi dream
I agree. Maybe it’s because if you’ve spent all that money on a 500 series piece of kit you can‘t imagine anyone getting something equal or better for less.
pjdowns
Living the Hifi dream
Same here, I don’t have a problem with Naim the brand, but find their kit far too forward for my tastes.
Just curious, is "forward Naim sound" fast leading edges with shortened decay, or a sense of the music being pushing along a bit too much, or something to do with the voicing like too much top end?
say it as it is
pfm Member
I don't have a huge problem with naim tbh although my interest stops at olive era with the exception of the nait series as even the 5i onward I found to be rather good.
I do agree the current range is grossly overpriced as it factory service costs IMHO.
But in defence used prices are fair and build quality allows them to be rebuilt and the huge community that supports CB and olive amps is very helpful at times. I don't believe factory spec is the only way as some cottage industry mods are proven to be excellent. Other build on exactly the ethos of the original design and can't fault that.
Naim stopped research and development when they stopped making the older stuff quite rightly moving on to the new kit. But as the relatively simple design and quality of construction allows servicing and modifications that surely is one of the advantages of Naim? Are they alone in this respect of course not but certainly there is more choice such is the sheer scale they sold in and the size of the cottage industries that supports the older products.
Do I think it's the best stuff with no equal no of course not there will always be advances in design and technology that bring the price down. I think streaming and and DACs are a good example the prices have tumbked in recent years when the market has opened.
But again does that put me off cd ? No I still enjoy cd now and then.
I liken it to my other passion cars. Technology pushes forward and mostly brings benefits electric power steering for example much more efficient and reliable and generally adequate for the task. But in subjective manner and that most crucial interaction human interface what is most tactile what offers the driver the feedback and feeling to understand what the car is doing?
You get my point some time there is sweet spot in development that gets swept away, conversely older tech can be fused with newer tech to provide great results
I do agree the current range is grossly overpriced as it factory service costs IMHO.
But in defence used prices are fair and build quality allows them to be rebuilt and the huge community that supports CB and olive amps is very helpful at times. I don't believe factory spec is the only way as some cottage industry mods are proven to be excellent. Other build on exactly the ethos of the original design and can't fault that.
Naim stopped research and development when they stopped making the older stuff quite rightly moving on to the new kit. But as the relatively simple design and quality of construction allows servicing and modifications that surely is one of the advantages of Naim? Are they alone in this respect of course not but certainly there is more choice such is the sheer scale they sold in and the size of the cottage industries that supports the older products.
Do I think it's the best stuff with no equal no of course not there will always be advances in design and technology that bring the price down. I think streaming and and DACs are a good example the prices have tumbked in recent years when the market has opened.
But again does that put me off cd ? No I still enjoy cd now and then.
I liken it to my other passion cars. Technology pushes forward and mostly brings benefits electric power steering for example much more efficient and reliable and generally adequate for the task. But in subjective manner and that most crucial interaction human interface what is most tactile what offers the driver the feedback and feeling to understand what the car is doing?
You get my point some time there is sweet spot in development that gets swept away, conversely older tech can be fused with newer tech to provide great results
say it as it is
pfm Member
Guess it depends on your music and set up yes a bit more closed. I find it puts the bass first then builds everything on to that.
For me that where the toe tapping effect comes from. I have not tried all the range so can only comment on what I have tbh but I guess you either like the sound or you don't.
I must state I use non Naim source and speakers so the effect may change if all Naim. What I can say that amp alone changes the sound
For me that where the toe tapping effect comes from. I have not tried all the range so can only comment on what I have tbh but I guess you either like the sound or you don't.
I must state I use non Naim source and speakers so the effect may change if all Naim. What I can say that amp alone changes the sound
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Let's be honest, the naim sound isnt 'a' thing, its many different combinations of things across multiple product iterations.
The best I can manage to sum it up is that they have a varying tendency to highlight the impact of notes and the expense of overall neutrality.
The best I can manage to sum it up is that they have a varying tendency to highlight the impact of notes and the expense of overall neutrality.
That's why Naimees love power supplies and racks of boxes to take over the lounge.
I know what you mean, I did a home demo on a PMC Cor integrated amp. It was very very good, didn’t need to be left on - it had a standby setting, had a remote and useful filters. It just was too nice and too simple. Nothing to fiddle with or “improve”, so I didn’t buy it.
I got RSL cards for the 32 and plan to remove the protection from the 160, more my kind of thing!
I know what you mean, I did a home demo on a PMC Cor integrated amp. It was very very good, didn’t need to be left on - it had a standby setting, had a remote and useful filters. It just was too nice and too simple. Nothing to fiddle with or “improve”, so I didn’t buy it.
I got RSL cards for the 32 and plan to remove the protection from the 160, more my kind of thing!
I think it's sort of human nature that if you buy into something you tend to defend it more, after all you have paid your money and don't like to be told you have wasted or it could have spent it better elsewhere. What I think is less explainable is those that haven't bought into something then slagging those that have off as why are they worried about it, it doesn't affect them? Then we have the real weirdos...those that used to own Naim and have moved on who feel motivated to tell anyone who still owns Naim that they are a borderline dickhead. I suspect the psychology behind this is they feel they were hoodwinked and anyone else they can 'save' reinforces their case for it being snake oil etc. ... safety in numbers I guess. Thing is whenever I have gone to buy hi-fi I have listened to it and if I don't like it I don't buy it or in some cases have bought it to try out if I couldn't hear it first and moved it on if I don't like it. I have never bought something, ran it for years and then decided I don't like it and subsequently run away screaming at anyone who will listen how evil it is, the voices in my head made me buy it, it's a cult etc. etc. It's a really peculiar way to behave, but it's what many seem to do for some reason.
say it as it is
pfm Member
Exactly you try it with your system in your home and see if you like. Advantage used at least is you can resell and get your money back that were the halo effect as some call it works well. Am sure there are lots of other products with outstanding build quality and can sound superb but can you maintain them in the same manner do they have the level of support? Can you buy and sell as easily used? In this case the sheer scale makes it only just viable.
Speaking personally it's paying tens of thousands for stuff I struggle with as very few will retain that value to sell on.
Speaking personally it's paying tens of thousands for stuff I struggle with as very few will retain that value to sell on.
LOL!
This this a common mod to non-Naim amps or does it lend itself to Naim due to their design?
I can't get on with them myself so just a simple pre/power for me, although I did like the improved clarity. Mind you, I've only tried them on pre-Olive kit so perhaps it's different with other eras.