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The (almost) bi-polar nature of Naim's products and customers . . .

Who are these people of whom you speak? Care to to give an actual example or quote illustrating this “obnoxious and condescendingly aggressive attitude,” preferably beyond the anecdotal.
Thanks in anticipation.

....There’s a list of repeat-offenders as long as my arm Jonn!! I won’t naim naims (geddit?!?) but just go on to their forum and read some long threads...you’ll be laughing your head off if you have a sense of humour too.
 
I think blaming advertising is unfair I grew up watching F1 yet I have never had the desire to try any of the high profile tobacco that was so heavily advertised nor do I have any Tag products and certainly have not chased down Agip products either.
I get your dislike for the pricing of some equipment and that fair enough but simply do as the rest of us do and vote with you feet or in this case your wallet. I have no interest in hugely over priced kit but older serviceable CB and olive that retains its value at a fraction of the cost I don't see the issue there. Most people will have heard this equipment at some point as you state dealers were available and they sold plenty. My point is if you like what you heard not what you read or were told then you picked naim. If you didn't then you picked something else. Sorry not buying this cult idea you are implying people are made to buy naim and pay huge money. Let's be clear you pays your money your makes your choice.
You are of course entitled to your opinion but so are those who from their own free will choose to buy or listen to naim or other expensive equipment.
As for the simple components in cheap box argument well apply this to cars yet billions still choose the brand and type they prefer despite all being fundamentally the same design
 
I feel there is sometimes a tendency for some to group people unfairly as ‘haters’ as a way of shutting down their input and valid points of view. It is a very defensive stance and can often turn personal.A lot on here appreciate Naim but are answering the OP. Is there an argument that a minority of Naim lovers perhaps crap on Naim threads?
 
... As a keen amp builder I have spent some considerable time with Naim clones (some would say they are not representative of the real thing). I believe I have identified where the sonic signature comes from. I don't think the sound is neutral, but it is appealing in some ways.
I won't know where to begin to describe how they do it, but I know what it sounds like. I've likened Naim to music with mono-sodium glutamate to food. I've called it the MSG-effect. You know it's a bit contrived, but just so addictive in the moment.
 
Advertising is immensely influential. Though you may not pick up a Rothmans plenty will.Pricing is an issue for many as it is tied directly to their earnings. Personally I think the older stuff is good value for money for the build, longevity and performance. I’m afraid the later gear’s pricing model has more in common with a Russ Andrews pricing model and is not great VFM IMO. But they are a business which no longer had the passion and enigma behind that JV espoused so not surprising really.
 
I remember seeing a Naim/Isobariks combo at my father in laws years ago. It was before he got me into hifi. When I saw them, I thought what the hell?When I heard them I thought Wow! There is something about the drive especially in combination with what seemed a very compatible partner.
 
I think blaming advertising is unfair I grew up watching F1 yet I have never had the desire to try any of the high profile tobacco that was so heavily advertised nor do I have any Tag products and certainly have not chased down Agip products either.

Just on this point...but had you been at the race track, and a smoker who had just run out of smokes? The effect of adverts is so strong that cinemas had to ban subliminal adverts during films, since the old con of cutting in a few frames saying 'You are thirsty' and then a min later 'Coca blah blah is cool and refreshing' all just a minute before the interval, was so effective that the sellers were overwhelmed when the interval arrived with thirsty people. Sales tripled apparently. Direct advertising works so well that no business can do without it. In this case, it's being influenced by the marketing of a product that lies in the range of what you are searching for. You are buying amps, and naim said....

We all like to imagine we are strong willed, never influenced, know our own minds etc, but 90% of us have no idea just how we get manipulated on a daily basis. It's worth a read up.
And then there is peer pressure and group association. Just look upthread to see the naimees arrive to defend the castle from attack! :)
 
My point is if you like what you heard not what you read or were told then you picked naim. If you didn't then you picked something else. Sorry not buying this cult idea you are implying people are made to buy naim and pay huge money. Let's be clear you pays your money your makes your choice.
You are of course entitled to your opinion but so are those who from their own free will choose to buy or listen to naim or other expensive equipment.

I totally agree, but when I went to the local Linn/Naim dealer I was given no choice, either an LP12 or an LP12 at my price point, they also stocked the Rega Planar 2 & 3. The salesman rubbished all other makes ( because Linn didn't allow its dealers to sell other makes apparently) as for CD and amps it was either Linn or Naim, I didn't particularly like or rate either. So I made the choice and bought various other brands elsewhere and had a system that I really liked and enjoyed. Whether the salesman truly believed what he was selling I'll never know but he couldn't possibly have heard all the other equipment available at that time.
 
they will queue up on threads such as this to explain why a transformer in a box is worth thousands... and us plebs just don't get it... cos it's not just any transformer in a box it's an M&S erm Naim one:mad::rolleyes: They could no doubt get away with selling an empty Naim shoe box case with just a power-on LED lighting up on the front for £1000 as a way of making your Naim stack look symmetrical :eek:

Jez, you really should get on the blower to a few VC’s. You could make a killing! Piece of cake, surely?
 
I've been put off saying anything more in this thread on the topic of Naim, their pricing, and where they stand on the value for money scale.

Because you will brand me as part of the usual bunch of ranting and raving Naim haters.

Was that your intention with this post, and with the series of posts you've made in this thread prior to this?

To put people off sharing their experience on the topic raised by the opening post?
Do you consider yourself one of the usual bunch? Can't say I've considered you as such. Contrary to your opinion of my postings, I'm quite happy with folk who've genuinely heard any make of equipment that I happen to mostly like, and post courteous views. Unfortunately, there isn't too much courtesy and respect on these threads. I'll take, hopefully polite, issue with folk whose only experience with a particular bit of kit is at a hi-fi show or at most dealer's demos, or choose to lump the very varied componentry from Naim as one sound. As Mr S-Man notes above, it can sound dreadful, or sublime, and I've heard plenty of the former. I'll be very surprised if you can find any instance on pfm where I've been rude and less than respectful, unless in jest or when others have been nasty and vindictive to myself or others.
 
If you look at what our systems do in an objective sense, they let us feel our emotions, through our favourite music.
We also have financial investment in our systems.
We go to work, "hopefully", and we build a system, and so we develop an attachment to the system. It makes us "feel good", for a while.
Money, is a very emotive subject if we are honest with ourselves. This often gets mentioned in defense or attack of the "beloved musical vehicle of choice".
I know I love my system, its been personally and carefully chosen by myself. I definitely have both emotional and financial attachment to it.
Its been with me 22 years, that's a lot of personal investment/attachment.
What I am suggesting here is we are simply projecting this emotional attachment and personal/ financial investment in the form of self righteous anger at each other.
 
May i just say there is this idea that naim con folk by saying there last purchase will only sound at its best when adding a PSU that cost almost as much.. and that naim should've build the product properly in the first place..

This is IMHO is mainly bollox and a sweeping generalisation. I know of a few manufacturers that do this, i own one now (my amp) and the additional PSU options are at £2K, £5K and £7K. There's already over 4500 individual components in it already.
2x 700va, 1x 100va, 1x 50va transformers and over 205,000uF capacitors in the amps internal PSUs alone. The external PSU i went for was the £2K option which has 2x 100va, 1x 20va and 200,000uF capacitors.

The amp itself is 130mm H, 430mm W and 390mm D and packed to the brim in all dimensions. The designers clearly made the decision to put in an option for an additional PSU for exisiting owners to upgrade what they have without loosing out on the £11,000 investment made on the amp it self.

Naim, Densen, Cyrus are just a few others i have owned myself.

I'm thinking of upgrading the PSU to the £5K one in time, and i can do so without loosing out on the purchase of the ex-dem amp (Audionet DNA 2.0) back in 2018.
 
Do you consider yourself one of the usual bunch? Can't say I've considered you as such. Contrary to your opinion of my postings, I'm quite happy with folk who've genuinely heard any make of equipment that I happen to mostly like, and post courteous views. Unfortunately, there isn't too much courtesy and respect on these threads. I'll take, hopefully polite, issue with folk whose only experience with a particular bit of kit is at a hi-fi show or at most dealer's demos, or choose to lump the very varied componentry from Naim as one sound. As Mr S-Man notes above, it can sound dreadful, or sublime, and I've heard plenty of the former. I'll be very surprised if you can find any instance on pfm where I've been rude and less than respectful, unless in jest or when others have been nasty and vindictive to myself or others.
Thank-you for your reply.

You haven't answered the questions I asked in my post that you quoted.

But by not answering them, you have answered them, because sometimes what people don't say is as informative as what they do say.
 
Thank-you for your reply.

You haven't answered the questions I asked in my post that you quoted.

But by not answering them, you have answered them, because sometimes what people don't say is as informative as what they do say.
Try reading my posting again...
 
I get the power of advertising but I think thankfully that stranglehold has now been broken as for the comment if I was a smoker id reach for brand x well I have to disagree I make my choices on what I like and enjoy and can afford. for example I drive an older non premium car yet I have access to brand new cars via company lease scheme at similar costs per year. If I blindly follow advertising I would have a shiny new car every year or 2 yet I don't I enjoy what I have and enjoy keeping it running to a useable condition. I hate the throwaway culture that thankfully is slowly reversing as many items can work way beyond their build date if looked after will they be shiny and the in thing hell no will they do they job they were meant for? of course they will.
as said if someone has the means and desire to buy new that is entirely their choice. If you are telling me we are all subject to marketing forces I would live purely on coca cola and any other mass marketed product yet I don't I choose what I like.
I think you are not giving people the credit they deserve in making informed decisions
Regards the dealers comments yes I have been to dealers who only carry certain stock I ask for a home demo or leave and go to a different dealer. Only things I bought new were speakers and cd players but even then I have found good used equipment far better value.
I know it doesn't feel li it just now but we are fortunate enough to have complete freedom of choice as consumers and citizens and should be allowed to make these choices without recrimination or being made to feel we need to defend our choices.
as said I fully support the right to hold and air personal opinions, but not to villainize or berate others for a choice or preference different to your own.
 
I'm really pleased with my extremely expensive Naim purchase cos I now have a black box with Naim written on it that lights up. This makes me better than anyone else here who doesn't own Naim. I don't know what's inside but that doesn't matter cos it's made by Naim and I'm assured it copies a very old traditional design that cannot be bettered. I hadn't really considered Naim until I saw one of their adverts and suddenly realised they are the best. I've no idea what to listen for or what sort or hifi I like but I'm sure once I get it working that it will sound stunning and be the best. For now, I just like to look at it and feel superior.

We all happy now?
 


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