The 2023 Formula One Season

[flutteringwow]

Older people love thinking the older times were harder in so many respects ..it may be true in this case regarding actual physical ability, but I think the demands on drivers these days can be much bigger in some respects than just getting in a car and driving - from the media attention, sponsorship pressures, mental abilities to endure race distances at those speeds with no room for error etc, g-forces, the lack of space on each track due to the size of the cars, barely any visibility etc. Lots of things to consider over an above just purely physical demands.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

No room for error?

Have you seen the Paul Ricard circuit?



My video above shows, pretty clearly, that those cars were a challenging drive. I’ve a video somewhere of onboard footage from the 50s up to the early 00s, I think. By the early 00s it looked, and I’m being honest here, boring. The only sign of g-force was the driver sliding backwards and forwards under acceleration and braking. No vibration at all, no bumping around.
At the 1986 British GP at Brands it was plain for all to see that drivers were properly wrestling with the cars, even through Paddock Hill. The cars skipped from bump to bump, battering the drivers. They were scary, nasty beasts, and all fans had the utmost respect for their abilities, not just as racers, but as drivers able to tame those beasts.

There is almost no sensation of speed in the current TV footage, and that really doesn’t help.

 

[flutteringwow]

No room for error?

Have you seen the Paul Ricard circuit?



My video above shows, pretty clearly, that those cars were a challenging drive. I’ve a video somewhere of onboard footage from the 50s up to the early 00s, I think. By the early 00s it looked, and I’m being honest here, boring. The only sign of g-force was the driver sliding backwards and forwards under acceleration and braking. No vibration at all, no bumping around.
At the 1986 British GP at Brands it was plain for all to see that drivers were properly wrestling with the cars, even through Paddock Hill. The cars skipped from bump to bump, battering the drivers. They were scary, nasty beasts, and all fans had the utmost respect for their abilities, not just as racers, but as drivers able to tame those beasts.

There is almost no sensation of speed in the current TV footage, and that really doesn’t help.

Yeah but one could post a section of Monaco with a modern F1 car and prove that theory wrong lol.

I haven't discounted the old cars being challenging to drive, not in the slightest, it's very clear they were, my argument is more that there are equal pressures on drivers todays, but that those pressures come in different ways and task different elements of the driver, which are still part of driving, it just may not be as visible to the viewer as it was back then.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Yeah but one could post a section of Monaco with a modern F1 car and prove that theory wrong lol.

I haven't discounted the old cars being challenging to drive, not in the slightest, it's very clear they were, my argument is more that there are equal pressures on drivers todays, but that those pressures come in different ways and task different elements of the driver, which are still part of driving, it just may not be as visible to the viewer as it was back then.

I really don’t give a rat’s arse about the pressures on the drivers… that’s for them to deal with as they wish. At least they’re not seeing a couple of mates a year killed or maimed!

 

[flutteringwow]

I really don’t give a rat’s arse about the pressures on the drivers… that’s for them to deal with as they wish. At least they’re not seeing a couple of mates a year killed or maimed!

So one statement the physical pressures are important, then another saying its not? Little bit confused.

Its not really about ‘giving a rats arse’ its about understanding that demands are there in many forms and that I hazard a guess many of those older drivers would crumble under some of the pressures the young ones face and have to manage these days, on and off track.

Fear of death is a fascinating subject but ultimately its a fact of life and a fact of racing, its for them to deal with as they wish..

 

[Tony Lockhart]

So one statement the physical pressures are important, then another saying its not? Little bit confused.

Fear of death is a fascinating subject but ultimately its a fact of life and a fact of racing, its for them to deal with as they wish..

You’ve changed it from pressures (you were going on about media pressures) to physical pressures.

Ok, before I start ignoring you again:

the media pressures a driver is subjected to don’t make good tv or good viewing for spectators at the circuit.
A driver controlling a lively car, a darty car, a 650kg car, well, that makes good telly.

A driver being subjected to 5g in a near as dammit one tonne behemoth also doesn’t.

 

[Tumeni Notes]

There is almost no sensation of speed in the current TV footage, and that really doesn’t help.

Not even from the helmet cam?

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Not even from the helmet cam?

I’ll hold back on that to see how it’s used this year.

But. For the real sensation of being at a GP, spectator phone footage is more exciting, has soul. I’ll post some links.

 

[paulbysea]

There is a long history of ex F1 drivers saying more modern cars than theirs are not as challenging to drive. Brundle is just another joining in this tradition. Modern drivers might not have to change gears manually. Still, they do have to change dozens of controls many times a lap and sometimes under g loads that were unimaginable when Brundle was driving competitively in F1. The reality is that the challenges are different, however, current F1 drivers are fitter than previous generations, mainly because of the demands of the frequent high and constantly variable G loads. Was is undoubtedly true though is that earlier generations of cars were much more lethal as the constant death toll continued. Fortunately, drivers like Stewart and people like Prof Watkins worked to make F1 safer. I am old enough to remember the senseless deaths of many drivers and much prefer modern cars and safer standards.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I suppose what it comes down to for me is the direction most motorsport is heading in.

Quiet.

Diluted.

The Red Bull effect.

And then shouty commentary that tries to add excitement to what is often a whole load of nothing on the track. And ‘that’ series that I refuse to watch. Ever heavier cars. Trying to level the field. Races in countries where there’s little interest in motorsport, as evidenced by puny crowds. Horrific ticket prices.

My Sky contract ends after this season ends, and I really can’t see me renewing the F1/Sports package: it’s making me feel cheap. (Which I am, but you know what I mean. Cheaper?)

 

[flutteringwow]

You’ve changed it from pressures (you were going on about media pressures) to physical pressures.

Ok, before I start ignoring you again:

the media pressures a driver is subjected to don’t make good tv or good viewing for spectators at the circuit.
A driver controlling a lively car, a darty car, a 650kg car, well, that makes good telly.

A driver being subjected to 5g in a near as dammit one tonne behemoth also doesn’t.

Nope I wasn't , not entirely, read again before your next tantrum.

Im not particularly interested in what makes good telly and your emphasis was on how the abilities to drive a yesteryear car were far greater than todays cars hence was my response is that its not imo due to the varying factors involved that will be increased in todays sport.

You mention stress on your profile so presumably you know how all types of stress affect the body and mind and ultimately a humans performance.

 

[cutting42]

Great interview with Frank Dernie, occasionally of this parish

 

[Yank]

Have you seen the Paul Ricard circuit?

Still gives me a headache. I wish they'd go back to Magny Bore.

 

[IanW]

Great interview with Frank Dernie, occasionally of this parish

Thanks for posting this.

I could hear Frank saying these things as I read the article!

The availability of money in F1 from 2000 onwards (it was a gradual change but budgets were by 2000 such that most teams would be of similar size to the 450 people working full time in an F1 team now*) enabled designers to think differently and so they were able to focus on what mattered in terms of performance (mass, function, aero etc) and dropped ease of manufacture, cost, time to manufacture (although this remained important) etc.

*Teams like Mercedes, RBR and Ferrari optimise their resources very carefully within the budget cap so there are many more people on site who would sometimes work on the F1 project but would mainly be on the INEOS yacht for example. Whereas a team like Sauber, which has a big disadvantage in that Swiss starter salaries are so high that the Sauber team probably has the biggest salary bill in F1 (or has the fewest employees for its salary budget), excluding the directors and drivers who still seem to be outside of the budget cap.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

A bit of fun while we wait.

Ignore the first ten seconds of intro

 

[Sonority]

I have a photo somewhere from Goodwood of all three GT40's that came 1-2-3 in that amazing Le Mans race - I think the first time they were all together since that race.
One of my all time favourite car designs.

 

[Enfield boy]

I was playing with a pal in about 65/66, we were out on our bikes when we were stopped in our tracks by this glorious noise. For a few minutes it rose and fell and we stood, transfixed. The noise got closer and clearer and, after a while this glorious mid metallic blue GT40 with wire wheels passed us. Magnificent.

 

[canonman]

I was playing with a pal in about 65/66, we were out on our bikes when we were stopped in our tracks by this glorious noise. For a few minutes it rose and fell and we stood, transfixed. The noise got closer and clearer and, after a while this glorious mid metallic blue GT40 with wire wheels passed us. Magnificent.

Wen I first started work at Rediffusion, we often wandered outside around 9am to wait for a white GT40 to pass by. It's owner commuted in it!

 

[flutteringwow]

 

[davidjt]

That Spa footage reminded me of listening in while Rupert Keegan described cresting Eau Rouge more or less flat out, on slicks, to find a cloudburst at the top. He 'decided not to touch the brake pedal', in rather more colourful language, and regained control (more or less) several hundred yards further down the road.
(I often wondered why marshalls didn't (weren't allowed to?) use the red & yellow flags in situations like that.)