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Thatcher gone

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Ernie CA, Apr 8, 2013.

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  1. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    Not as nebulous as you think Chris.
    The key organisations can be identified, and it's more a case of people standing up to them and saying, in the words of the Lady, No, no, no.
     
  2. Mescalito

    Mescalito pfm Member

    1. The banks should have been allowed to fail. It would have been hugely painful in the short to medium term, but it would have cleaned up the system in one fell swoop. Moral jeopardy has to mean something.

    2. Regarding tax avoidance, close the loopholes. But whilst they exist, I for one will not criticise anyone, individual or corporate, for taking maximum advantage of them.

    3. Remove all income support/family benefits. All they represent is a vast subsidy to businesses & distort the labour market. And certainly, don't supply anyone with a free labour force. The only exception I would make is if the placement incorporated some genuine skills training where the trainee came out at the other end with a genuine, recognised, marketable qualification with a skillset to match. Not the ersatz "apprenticeships" currently on offer.

    4. Regarding the Thatcher funeral, it's peanuts. She was a hugely significant world statesperson & a very successful British PM in purely political terms. She also happens to have been a Tory, so it's entirely understandable that her party will make as much political capital out of the whole dog & pony show as they can. That's what politicians do. Personally. I don't actually give a toss.

    Chris
     
  3. irons1965

    irons1965 pfm Member

    Its hard work not to.

    All I will say is I'm frankly astonished by (in the main) the lack of compassion displayed by the pro- Thatcher types here....I can't for the love of me understand it sorry.
     
  4. Anex

    Anex Señor Member

    Really? It was everything she stood for. A Randian nightmare.
     
  5. irons1965

    irons1965 pfm Member

    Don't I know it Anex.

    It still baffles, disappoints and angers though.
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    The left, even the hard left has never argued for blanket nationalisation.
    Even the party from which Hatton took his prompts wanted 'nationalisation of the commanding heights of the economy' - so the utility companies, banks, those providing essential services etc. None want to extend this to SMEs.
    Thatcher famously protested that when she came to office, the removals firm Pickfords was a nationalised company. She was right to protest and right to put it into the private sector, but no marxist/socialist would seek to nationalise such a company.

    There has to be a transitional period and this is what all of the great marxist/socialist thinkers have argued. There is no sudden transition to the perfect society and this is rightly recognised as utopian. The first stages are essentially a planned economy with further transitional stages towards the ideal. Marx always argued that the system would only work in conditions of what he called 'super abundance' - but we have to get to that stage first with planned economies.

    When you stop and look at what socialism or communism actually are - not the grotesque deformed states of the old eastern block - they actually comes across as quite moderate and sensible, appealing to those on the centre ground. Tony Benn famously used to discuss socialist ideas with Tory voters and would just float some of the basic ideas and goals past them, to almost unanimous approval once the labels where removed.
     
  7. Mescalito

    Mescalito pfm Member

    And how exactly is your compassion manifested? By posting on a hifi forum?
    Chris
     
  8. Anex

    Anex Señor Member

    Ahh, the good old fall back position. You'll have to do better than that.
     
  9. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    While I am leftish politically, I find there's a curious naïveté among marxist/socialist thinkers, in that they believe (as Marx appeared to do) that, if capitalism were removed, we humans would all be happy and nice to each other. It's as silly as the equally utopian US belief that US-style democracy is the default condition of mankind - take away the nasty man at the top, voilà, Republican voters automatically bloom. I think your "ideal" is forever out of reach, Robert.

    The fact of the matter is that we are all greedy, to a greater or lesser degree. To modify Gordon Gekko, a little greed is good, because it fuels a desire for self-improvement, to enhance one's personal lot in life. A lot of greed, as we've found, is disastrous. There really does need to be some sort of watchdog to encourage the former but discourage the latter. We also need to dump the crazy and ultimately unsustainable idea of perpetual growth. The achievement of a steady state would, in my mind, be ideal, but I'm not holding my breath...
     
  10. irons1965

    irons1965 pfm Member

    You are clearly to be pitied (And ignored).
     
  11. Mescalito

    Mescalito pfm Member

    Anex, don't you ever get sick of hand-wringing, bleeding-heart-on-sleeve oh-so-right-on whingers who do precisely zilch other than moan?

    Chris
     
  12. Anex

    Anex Señor Member

    Not really. How do you know what else they get up to off of Pink Fish?

    Either way, it beats being a self centred waste of space.
     
  13. Mescalito

    Mescalito pfm Member

    Waste of space, Anex? Elucidate, please.

    Chris
     
  14. Anex

    Anex Señor Member

    No need, other than to say material wealth doesn't impress everyone.
     
  15. Mescalito

    Mescalito pfm Member

    So, your philosophy is presumably anyone who is wealthy is a waste of space?

    Chris
     
  16. Greg

    Greg 2t5b

    Chris, I guess the way it works is you have to give a little out in order to receive a bit back. You tell us how you only look after you and yours, so it probably makes sense that only you and yours are praising and appreciative of you and your subtle charisma.
     
  17. pure sound

    pure sound Trade: manufacturer/distributor

    Subtle charisma! Very good.
     
  18. Anex

    Anex Señor Member

    I'd be interested to see the working behind that extrapolation...
     
  19. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    I'm reminded of the time you suggested disabled & ill folks should receive loans in place of benefits.
    Probably due to similar levels of general stupidity.

    It's obvious you don't know what you're posting about.


    Exactly. What puzzles my is all the hand wringing from Thatcherites, due to lack of respect, etc.
    It's what their great leader would've done, & probably wanted, after all.

    :-D
     
  20. Anex

    Anex Señor Member

    I dunno, Maggie and Ayn may have appreciated Chris's enthusiasm. Not sure about the charisma though - probably wasted on those two.
     
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