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Thatcher gone

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Ernie CA, Apr 8, 2013.

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  1. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    I would say that during her time in office, the idea of fair play was well and truly buried and replaced with "me me me me me, **** the rest."
  2. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    i think you mean culturally ingrained sense of fair play (innate means born with). i would agree on the football pitch, but other areas (finance, illegal wars) are questionable.

  3. mattski

    mattski pfm Member

    Signed the petition above, and Seeker - good to see a measured and balanced response. I can see arguments on both sides of the coin. I think the truly "anti" protests are really tasteless, as was some woman on the train the day it happened repeatedly crowing about getting champagne to celebrate.

    She did f__k up the place though and every time I see anything about bad bankers, hardship in previously prosperous industrial communities or those dreadful videos of dough-faced yuppy tossers swilling champagne in the 80s, I see her. But, the unions were completely out of control and something had to be done, she just went way too far IMHO as our economy is now a house of cards that's far too dependent on London.

    My 2p's worth n'all - all parties are pretty much as bad as each other, look at Tony Bliar, Brown and Clegg...
  4. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    To quote that great contemporary of Thatcher the Rt. Hon. 'Del Boy' Trotter.

    'Shut Up You Tart!'

  5. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    Except it's not a state funeral. She specifically requested not to have one.

    That said, it'll be pretty damn close to one.....

    Even if it was 30 minute ceremony at the crem followed by sherry and sandwiches in the function room at the Flying Horse, it would be a political event requiring a considerable amount of effort and expense to keep calm.

    You're probably right. But I do not believe that justifies causing upset to people who just happen to be related to her. It certainly won't make anything better, it won't rebuild British industry and rebalance fairness in our society. A vicious circle of nastiness is something to avoid at all costs.
  6. Mstone

    Mstone Hola

    What an idiotic post
  7. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    if the state is paying for any of it, then...

    here we must disagree again, because i think a widely televised protest of greed and capitalism from an advanced western nation (non - P I G S) would mean a lot in terms of eventually re-balancing society.

    keep in mind also that this isn't just for you, but much of the world. we have all been messed up by the reagan/thatcher axis. we will all be watching to see what happens. otherwise, please send the cortège on a royal/colonial tour to montreal and we will be glad to take our chances with the police ;-)

  8. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Who told you that about 'The Unions' ?

    Everybody on here needs to remember that were it not for unions, the hours, conditions, pay, leave, health and safety etc., etc. that they now enjoy would not exist. Not a single one of these things was conceded willingly by the employers and given the chance, the bastards would claw them all back.
    In fact, under the current bunch of Tories, it is already happening.

    Get real people. The Tories and big business are most definitely NOT your friends.

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2018
  9. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    Not all of it but see my point below.

    I have no issue with protest, I fully accept that her legacy is not as glorious as many wish to portray it. For fear of repeating myself, my objection is the nature of the protest - you can make your point without the nastiness and ugliness I suspect many would like to use.
  10. Minstrel SE

    Minstrel SE These go to eleven

    Seeker your views are patronising and old fashioned. You are another person trying to give us moral lectures on respect for the dead.

    If my mother had done half the things thatcher did, I would expect people with loud hailers and ghetto blasters at the funeral.

    Its not a fear I have because my mother has an ounce of compassion for others. Cant thatchers family and supporters live with how unpopular she was?

    Its clear that you have absolute respect for her and thats where we totally differ. Thats how deliberately divisive she was and why this thread gets so heated. Any supporter of thatcher or the tories is no friend of mine.
  11. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    Yes but after all the good things they did in the late 19th / Early 20th Century, they kind of forgot their way a bit and that power, it ended up being in the hands of a few high profile 'Fred Kites' like Red Robbo and Arthur Scargill that seemed hell bent on pursuing their agendas and sod the workers.

    And that played into the hands of the Tory Govt who got exactly the ammo they needed to erode union power to sell off the family silver.

    IMHO, although it was not the unions' fault for the mess we were in in the early 80s, they didn't help themselves; they couldn;t behave in any other way though. Once the Tories started on this course, the end was inevitable.
  12. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    And you can correct economic and social woes, without attacking the weakest and decimating communities. But that's just not the Tory way...

    I don't personally advocate overt celebration. I think it plays into Tory hands, especially via the press.

    As has already been pointed out, what is needed is a dignified and clear rebuttal and exposure of all of her wrong doing.

  13. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    Patronising, I won't accept. "Old fashioned", I will. Apologies if my tone comes across as lecturing, it's not meant to be; merely my POV and sorry if it doesn't tap into the prevailing views expressed on this thread.

    Glad to hear it. How does she think people should behave at Thatcher's funeral?

    I'm sure they are fully aware of how unpopular she was and remains.

    I'm not quite sure what 'absolute' respect is so I can't comment.
  14. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    Which takes me back to my view that Glenda Jackson pretty much sums up my views and presents it in a way I like. :)
  15. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    This is a good point. I worked for Courtaulds in the 1970s. They constantly imposed new agreements. When finally, they unilaterally broke an agreement we had no choice but to strike, in the almost certain knowledge they would close the mill
    But, TBH, by then, most of us were past caring. You can take so much...

  16. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    This view of the all powerful, undemocratic, unelected unions running the country coming from the political right is complete nonsense.

    In the mid to late 70s, the uk government was being directed by the IMF to make cuts, in exactly the same way as we see today. Again the working people were being asked to pay for failures in a system over which they had no say.
    So it was quite right to see strikes, and if that meant rubbish on the streets, the trains stopped running and we had to use candles once a week - tough.
    People had every right to protect their wages and to demand reasonable remuneration for their work.

    So lets look at this cobblers about democracy we see constantly screamed by the right.

    - Today if you ask the government to pay a living wage - the markets won't stand it.
    - if you ask for decent pensions and conditions for the elderly - we can't do that as the markets wont stand for it.
    - If you request the reversal of cuts being made to public services, - sorry the markets won't tolerate it.
    - if you propose to cancel the deficit reduction program until after the recovery, yes you guessed it, the markets will freak-out.

    Did you elect this market?
    Can you remove this market?
    Can you access the people running the market?

    Of course not.
    An Undemocratic, unelected, self serving, wealthy beyond your wildest dreams elite which you cannot influence, yet it possesses more power than our elected government to dictate economic policy.

    So given we have laws to curb 'undemocratic' unions, where is the anti-market legislation?
    Where are the government bills insisting on ballots and referral to the public before decisions are taken?
    Where are the policies designed to monitor who drives this market?
    And where are the policies and proposals to allow us the option to have influence over this all powerful force?

    The right are strangely silent on the question of democracy when it comes to the most undemocratic, dictatorial movement and organisations on the planet.

    The most stalinist trade union in the land is a beacon of democratic excellence when set against the institutions of capitalism.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2018
  17. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Excellent post!

  18. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    too bad the market won't stand for it.

  19. mattski

    mattski pfm Member

    How patronising - my grand father was a shop steward so I am aware of them, thank you.

    No government are our friends and big business has their own interests and don't suddenly become hippies with labour in power.

    If you re-read my post, I said things were out of control, not that good didn't and doesn't come from unions. Perhaps you would like the strikes back? I can't wait to see rubbish not collected, power cuts, dead un-buried and a winter of discontent :rolleyes:
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2018
  20. simeon

    simeon No fixed engagements

    Good one, Robert.
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