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Telephone wiring/socket/line gurus. Please help!

Mike Reed

Mike Reed

pfm Member
I'm on Virgin. A month ago my cordless 4 phone system stopped receiving calls; all anybody got was an engaged tone. I moved the master socket (it wasn't affixed to the wall) and wires to it and the phone started working again. This was temporary, and between then and a week ago either I could call out but not receive OR the reverse Or it was dead both ways or it crackled a bit.

A week ago it packed up completely, leaving me with no contact except an old Nokia (incoming only) or email. I need to find out if it's an outside fault (maybe in the Virgin box or cable to the house, otr whether it's my master socket, which isn't, strangely, marked BT, Openreach, Virgin or NTL etc.

I have a slave socket in the garage with easy screw-in connections, but no resistor or whatever. Can I simply use that as my incoming in order to find the fault? I also have an old BT telephone which I'll get a neighbour to check though it used to work fine). I don't have a multimeter or Krone tool. I'm getting a bit frantic now as the fault is not apparent, though I can detach the wires and try to re-affix them in the master socket, just in case.

What concerns me is the intermittent nature of the fault up to a week ago, seemingly from an internal connection or cable. The Virgin cable outside is black but the one coming in is white. I had a porch built 11 years ago and the cable was routed into my living room, coming up from under the skirting. Bit of a dog's dinner but has worked perfectly for 11 years.

Sorry this is complicated but the main question is: can I use that slave/secondary socket instead of my master to at least eliminate something?

Thanks in anticipation.
 
Not really an answer, but with less kit attached to the landline here, I had the same problems 3 weeks ago. It was the overhead line - they had to replace a very old cable which turned-out to have worn through the insulation where it attached to the bracket on the gable. From the symptoms, especially how it came and went early morning and early evening, you'd never have guessed what it was.

Total PITA to do the job due to accessibility.
 
Have you done a quiet line test using the test socket within the Master socket. Take off part of faceplate to access and use an old style handset. Info and pics/vids below.

https://support.zen.co.uk/kb/Knowledgebase/Performing-a-Quiet-Line-Test

Before starting:
  • You should use a wired telephone connected to your BT test socket. This guide shows you how to access the test socket.
  • Ensure you have a method of noting the date, time and results of the test (i.e. pen and paper/computer).
Performing the Quiet Line Test:
  1. Once you have your telephone connected to the BT test socket dial 17070. You will reach BT's line test facility.
  2. Choose option 2 from the menu presented - "Quiet Line Test".
  3. If your telephone has the option, put it on mute. You should hear nothing through the handset.
  4. If you do hear any line noise, crackling, buzzing, popping or humming, note the time when you conducted the test.
  5. Repeat the test several hours later to determine if the noise is present - again noting the time. If no noise is present this time repeat the test at different times, noting if and when the noise is present.
    Note: Faults of this kind are caused by a number of different factors - including some that may only occur at particular parts of the day (e.g. when it's light or when it's dark) or during different kinds of weather (windy, rain, storms etc.). Recording this additional detail may also help with your telephone service provider's investigations.
  6. Once you have identified the times when noise occurs contact your telephone service to report a fault.
  7. Keep hold of the record of the times tested throughout the duration of the fault, to ensure any work by your telephone service provider looks at any specific times when the problem occurs.
If you experienced problems with your Broadband service, and a noise fault has been fixed by your telephone service provider, monitor the Broadband connection for around 24 hours to ensure the service has a chance to adjust to the line working correctly. If problems continue after this time refer to our Broadband troubleshooting guides for further advice.
 
Mike Reed said:
I'm on Virgin. A month ago my cordless 4 phone system stopped receiving calls; all anybody got was an engaged tone. I moved the master socket (it wasn't affixed to the wall) and wires to it and the phone started working again. This was temporary, and between then and a week ago either I could call out but not receive OR the reverse Or it was dead both ways or it crackled a bit.

A week ago it packed up completely, leaving me with no contact except an old Nokia (incoming only) or email. I need to find out if it's an outside fault (maybe in the Virgin box or cable to the house, otr whether it's my master socket, which isn't, strangely, marked BT, Openreach, Virgin or NTL etc.

I have a slave socket in the garage with easy screw-in connections, but no resistor or whatever. Can I simply use that as my incoming in order to find the fault? I also have an old BT telephone which I'll get a neighbour to check though it used to work fine). I don't have a multimeter or Krone tool. I'm getting a bit frantic now as the fault is not apparent, though I can detach the wires and try to re-affix them in the master socket, just in case.

What concerns me is the intermittent nature of the fault up to a week ago, seemingly from an internal connection or cable. The Virgin cable outside is black but the one coming in is white. I had a porch built 11 years ago and the cable was routed into my living room, coming up from under the skirting. Bit of a dog's dinner but has worked perfectly for 11 years.

Sorry this is complicated but the main question is: can I use that slave/secondary socket instead of my master to at least eliminate something?

Thanks in anticipation.
Click to expand...
If you are paying virgin for the phone have you spoken to them about the fault?
 
Amber Audio said:
Have you done a quiet line test using the test socket within the Master socket.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Amber, for your exhaustive reply, and I shall look at your links. However, the line is from Virgin, so separate from the broadband (which is fine). I can't phone out, and don't have a functional mobile for that purpose. I already have the master socket in bits and there's no 'test socket' facility. I'll get my old BT phone checked out and see if that works; it didn't when using it recently.

To my mind, if I call out Virgin and it's an internal fault, I'll get clobbered financially; hence the elimination process. BT has nothing to do with my lines, at least at my end.

Cav said:
If you are paying virgin for the phone have you spoken to them about the fault?
Click to expand...

Thanks, Cav, but see my last para above. Yes, it's a complete Virgin package.

I do really need to know if I can substitute the slave/secondary socket for the master, simply to check whether the master is at fault. Don't see why not, but that resistor (?) in the master (surge protection?) is holding me back.

Amber, both links refer to BT shared bb+phone using ADSL (?) filter. It's not noise on the line I'm concerned about, it's nothing on the line; in or out.
 
If you are on Virgin and totally divorced from BT you’ll be on a VOIP system - Internet routed phone calls and nothing to do with copper and quiet line tests then, if you post a pic of your Master Socket (presumably stamped Virgin not OpenReach) someone on here with the same may be able to assist.

If you have the new fangled Internet Phones then it’ll be a call to Virgin as they run over Broadband so troubleshooting is different to normal and basically the same as troubleshooting computer connectivity, I don't know anyone who uses Virgin.
 
I'm bumping this in the hope that someone might know if I can (temporarily) substitute the master telephone socket with an extension socket I have in my garage. The Virgin telephone cable comes straight into the master socket; nothing to do with BT or broadband. I need to do a process of elimination.

I ask because there's a resister (?) on the master socket but not on the extension one.
 
Mike, I think you need to contact Virgin so that they can test things at their end. If they start moaning or wanting you to charge, just ask to be put through to cancellations as you are going to sign up with Sky/BT/ANother. It should focus their minds when they are desperate to retain customers. I have heard that the Virgin call centre is now in the USA.
 
If you have a standard UK phone socket, the wiring behind it almost certainly belongs to Openreach, who lease it to UK telcos.

Put everything back together correctly (google is your friend), play dumb and log a call with Virgin to fix it. They are accountable for everything up to the socket and will run through a few tests with you before sending out openreach to fix it.

Technically you are in breach of contract for messing with the master socket and they can charge you for putting this right, but one usually gets away with sort of thing. As long as they don't read this thread.

I agree that it sounds like damage to external overhead multicore cables.

This is all assuming that you do not have a VOIP service, of course, which I would doubt if you are plugging a phone into a standard master socket.

Of course, maybe they've migrated your service over to VOIP, shut down your line and now you need to buy a VOIP phone and plug it into your router.
 
It does not matter if it is OpenReach or a Virgin VOIP gateway, the pair should have ~48V (~24V often with VOIP) between them. Shorting them is detected as busy
 
VM only started to roll out a VOIP service in 2017 and IIRC it is only available to FTTP customers.

Virgin operates a completely separate phone system system (it installed a wire/cable to carry all its services) from OpenReach.

When installed in our house (it was actually NTL so forever ago), they installed their own new socket, next to the BT one, and moved over the extension (to upstairs) from the BT socket to the VM
 
Stuart Frazer said:
Mike, I think you need to contact Virgin so that they can test things at their end. If they start moaning or wanting you to charge, just ask to be put through to cancellations as you are going to sign up with Sky/BT/ANother. It should focus their minds when they are desperate to retain customers. I have heard that the Virgin call centre is now in the USA.
Click to expand...

Definitely need to speak to Virgin. An old corded phone is a great diagnostic tool. In our last house we had the old style Network Terminating Equipment without the test socket. This did have the effect of putting the call centre staff off script.
 
Our builder ripped the the main dropwire clean out of the wall the other week when he pulled the roof off the front bay window. New hole drilled, two wire ends stripped, pushed into socket, job done.

BT wanted £120 to do the same.
 
gintonic said:
Virgin operates a completely separate phone system system (it installed a wire/cable to carry all its services) from OpenReach.

When installed in our house (it was actually NTL so forever ago), they installed their own new socket,
Click to expand...

Yup. Mine was installed by Virgin around 2005/6; As I say above, the installation has nothing to do with BT. My old BT phone is dead as well as my cordless units, so I'm pretty sure it's external (water seepage over the ages?). The only thing I haven't done/checked is the connection to the master socket (hence my request about using the extension socket) but it looks and feels very tightly gripped.

Anyway, I can contact Virgin via my account and call in an engineer. Thing I can't fathom, though, is why the exterior cable is black and the interior is white !!!!!!!!! Building that porch in ;09 must have compromised something somewhere.

It seems that people phoning me now just get the ringing tone; doesn't go through to my answerphone. This is a new development.
 
Mike Reed said:
Thing I can't fathom, though, is why the exterior cable is black and the interior is white
Click to expand...

mine is the same. Black external cable comes out of the ground in what is an NTL box on my wall (some sort of junction box).

One cable that comes from the junction box and through my wall is white. Once inside the house, the cable goes through several splitters - one to the phone, one to the V6 box in the living room, one to the broadband modem.

Another cable (white) comes from the external junction box and runs up the wall to supply the feed to our second V6 box in the bedroom.
 
Mike Reed said:
I'm bumping this in the hope that someone might know if I can (temporarily) substitute the master telephone socket with an extension socket I have in my garage. The Virgin telephone cable comes straight into the master socket; nothing to do with BT or broadband. I need to do a process of elimination.

I ask because there's a resister (?) on the master socket but not on the extension one.
Click to expand...


It's a capacitor. It went faulty in ours and Virgin came out and replaced the box. It's their box so there was no charge.
 
gintonic said:
mine is the same. Black external cable comes out of the ground in what is an NTL box on my wall (some sort of junction box).
Click to expand...

The phone (only) cable from the Virgin (splitter) box on the outside wall is black (actually, so is the broadband and separate TV)). It comes around the bay and enters the house. However, where it enters the inside from under the skirting it is white. Sounds slightly different to your description. Within the depth of a cavity wall, how on Earth can it change?
 
Chops54 said:
It's a capacitor. It went faulty in ours and Virgin came out and replaced the box. It's their box so there was no charge.
Click to expand...

Never thought of that one! It's a bit small to be what I consider to be a capacitor. I think it must be for surge protection (according to what I've gleaned on Google). If that is the culprit, changing over to my extension socket would work (no capacitor/resistor there). After over a week of fumbling around now, I think I might call in the engineer tomorrow. I'm no expert; I only have a wee bit of nous and patience left to tackle these things !!!!
 
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