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Teddy XPS just arrived

Discussion in 'audio' started by zipperheadbanjo, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. zipperheadbanjo

    zipperheadbanjo pfm Member

    A freshly ordered Teddy Pardo XPS just arrived via Canada Post. 4 days door to door. Quite impressive. Just installed it (unit is still cold… literally… from being in a Canada Post truck in -15 temps) onto my NDX.

    Looking forward to hearing it after 4 hours of warm up time after I get home from work…. and to the bedding in process in general over the next 4 weeks.
     
  2. DNM

    DNM pfm Member

    I didn't know what this was until I Googled it. Interesting there's an alternative to Naims external PS's.

    I'm puzzled why a Dac/Streamer, CD player or amp would require an external power supply. For a TT it makes perfect sense, however for amps/CD players and Dacs shouldn't the manufacturer produce a competent on-board power supply with sufficient screening in the first place?

    I ask this as an ND5 owner, my first and only Naim component, which I've been very happy with. I auditioned ND5, NDX and both with XP5 when streaming, especially high res, was in its infancy and concluded the differences were insignificant and it was too early to blow ££££ until the landscape settled. So glad I did given the pace of development.

    Whilst I like my ND5, its RRP with XP5 now costs a cool £4000 (£2,350 + £1,650) and I see your Teddy Pardo costs $1,300. Given you can buy's a Devialet 120 for £4200 or much less if you buy it in Paris, and it includes amp and Phono stage, isn't this Naim source plus external PS business a folly or am I missing something?

    Very interested to hear what you think the external PS adds......
     
  3. Ginger

    Ginger pfm Member

    How much is the devil 120 in Paris?
     
  4. DNM

    DNM pfm Member

    It was €4990 (£3,700 @ current tourist RofE)
     
  5. PierciT

    PierciT pfm Member

    Devialet is 5000 euros without discount so less than 3700 pounds at today's rate.

    The teddy Xps works well with the NDX. Another thing you should try is a naim burndy s-xps with it. I had NDX - TP XPS into a dac and the naim cable made a change.
     
  6. DNM

    DNM pfm Member

    Interesting. I'm curious to know why it works well. Have Naim engineered an inferior on-board PS? Other manufacturers manage to cram all their tech including PS into one single unit but Naim still advocate the external PS, which seems antediluvian in this day and age.

    I can't say I heard much difference when I had the demo but it wasn't in my system so impossible to tell really. Given what you can buy for the price of a Naim PS it seems madness thats all. Maybe I should borrow a demo unit..
     
  7. longtiger62

    longtiger62 longtiger62

    The answer to your question is yes. That's the way of Naim.
    Power supplies from Teddy can reduce the cost of upgrading, and in my experience (TPXPS/Dual Teddy Cap) they sound better too.
     
  8. fay spook

    fay spook pfm Member

    Naim don't engineer an inferior on-board PSU, then just make better ones out-board. This could get down to semantics, if there is a better out-board then the in-board must be inferior, but it isn't meant to be. The story goes back in their history, its about signal and earthing routing etc. Look at what your namesake DNM does with power supplies id you want a similar but different view on this. There are other manufacturers who did and do do out-board PSUs.
     
  9. bob atherton

    bob atherton pfm Member

    Agreed

    Naim's built in PS is good, their outboard power supplies are very good, the ones from Teddy Pardo are extremely good. :)
     
  10. teddy_pardo

    teddy_pardo Trade: Teddy Pardo

    Naim usually build their equipment in a way that there is an internal power supply, but with an option to add an external power supply with more more power rails, which improves sound quality. The power supply circuit of the internal power supply is usually the same as the external, it is mainly an issue of how many.
     
  11. DNM

    DNM pfm Member

    Thanks for the responses and good to know there's an alternative PS to Naim. Look forward to hearing what you think of your XPS Zipper.

    So basically, more power rails equals better SQ? What little I know and have read, I thought multi power rails in a PSU had no impact on performance but simply offered increased safety in high wattage applications. Is there a tangible/measurable science behind its application in Hifi or am I stoking a power cord type discussion here, in which case my apologies and the Mod should delete my posts forthwith :)
     
  12. Whaleblue

    Whaleblue Southbound

    Luckily there is complete agreement across the board on these subjects here, so you're fine. ;)
     
  13. Pete MB&D

    Pete MB&D Pete Maddex, the one and only!

    The advantages are that each stage gets its own power, unaffected by proceeding or subsequent stages.

    Pete
     
  14. DNM

    DNM pfm Member

    Hahaha, I've noticed :)

    Thanks Pete.

    Just had a little read on the Teddy Pardo website and note that they don't require external PSU's with their own amps, Dac and phono stage because their SuperTeddyReg PSU is built in. It kind of brings me back to why Naim can't/doesn't bundle the best possible PSU within its equipment. There must have been many advances in PSU technology and isolation techniques over the years so are there still genuine benefits to keeping the PSU in a separate box, as with a TT, or is the external PSU thing simply a Milch Cow they're unwilling to give up?
     
  15. lavi

    lavi pfm Member

    I am pretty sure Naim could bundle their PSU. But they would lose money. Naim pholosophy is more about never ending expansive upgrades imho


     
  16. teddy_pardo

    teddy_pardo Trade: Teddy Pardo

    Technically, it is better to have the regulators as close as possible to the circuit being powered. I think that the idea behind the external power supply was commercial, to offer an upgrade path.
     
  17. zipperheadbanjo

    zipperheadbanjo pfm Member

    Interesting discussion.

    I've been buying Naim products for about 4 years. I started with a basic SuperUniti, which I thought was a fantastic product and a revelation at the time. I started a move to separates last year and in my experience thus far, each step up the "upgrade ladder" has resulted in a fairly significant improvement. Which has led me to believe that their is some validity to the Naim philosophy of product "upgradeability".

    That said, I do find it hard to rationalize the cost of the classic range PSU's… which is why I'm using the Teddy Pardo PSU's which generally cost about 1/3 the cost of the equivalent Naim piece, and by all accounts provide similar (albeit a little different) performance.

    After less than 24 hours the primary changes that I've noted is a significant expansion of the sound stage, tighter more controlled and more pronounced bass, and more separation / "air" around the various instruments. So right out of the box I'm pretty pleased with the investment, and I understand that the unit takes about 4 weeks to fully bed in… so will be interested to listen to the process.

    The NDX bare never felt "lacking" in any specific way… but there is no doubt that adding the external power supply gives it a boost. At least to my ears.
     
  18. fay spook

    fay spook pfm Member

    But why? You have a classic 72-140. You like it. 10 years later you have a bit of money and want a bit more of the same so you buy a HICAP. You have thrown nothing away and have no redundant supplies. If the HICAP was bundled with the 72 the price would have been a lot higher. The market is price sensitive. You don't have to upgrade but you can. I sold Naim kit for years and lots of customers never upgraded. (Much as many people still have their NAD Marantz type systems). I haven't upgraded my Naim amplifiers in the 20 years I have owned them, I've got a system I like. But please look at some of the box swappers here, you see that in the system history threads, and see that upraditus isn't limited to Naim.
     
  19. Mike-B

    Mike-B Self opinionated techie

    +1
    + the bedding in changes are IME not so pronounced, it is however a nice chunk of icing on the cake.
     
  20. DNM

    DNM pfm Member

    That makes sense to a point but what if you want to buy the best Naim has to offer of a particular product in the current range, then basically you've no option but to have two boxes. There's seemingly no technical merit to having a separate PSU and according to Teddy_Pardo above, there's actually a benefit to having the PSU integrated within the main unit. With NDS you've no choice but to have two boxes because it doesn't have an internal PSU!

    I suppose its horses for courses or the "Naim Way" as has been stated. Good to hear Mr Pardo has a much more sensibly priced and more compact option because £1650 plus for a PSU seems excessive to me. Glad you're enjoying the XPS Zipperheadbanjo.
     

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