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Tda1541 Nos Mod Pro's vs Con's

retrospective

pfm Member
Am i being dumb..i own a philips cd160 which is 16 bit 4x oversampling so non oversampling would revert it back to a 14bit player??

What's the benefit of that?

In Sonic terms (laymans Sonic terms) what would be the Pro's and Con's?
 
Argh you've opened a can of worms there in the oversampling vs non-oversampling debate.

I'm a bit busy now but I'll post later.
 
The TDA1541 is a 16 bit DAC. It works in conjunction with a separate digital filter for 4xoversampling.

Disabling the filter will still leave you with 16 bits. But the performance of the CDP will be compromised unless you add a complex analogue filter to the output. There is no pro.
 
Paul R is completely correct.

The TDA1541 is usually partnered with the SAA7220 digital filter chip.

Unfortunately the SAA7220 is a noisy power hungry beast of thing and puts quite a lot of 'noise pollution' into the surrounding circuitry. It also handles the clock signal distribution too and unfortunately degrades the quality of the clock signal in the process.

Removing the SAA7220 (and thereby removing the oversampling and filtering) will leave a load of ultrasonic noise/distortion in the signal that shouldn't be there and would usually be filtered out. This obviously seems like bad idea and backward step.

However.....removing the SAA7220 also removes the noise, power supply and clock signal problems associated with that chip so there are some benefits and some people prefer the resultant sound which is often described as being 'warmer' or 'more organic'.

A much more optimal approach though is to give the SAA7220 it's own dedicated and well sorted power supply and rework the clock distribution scheme so that SAA7220 is no longer handling the clock signal distribution duties. Once you've done all this you'll be getting all the positive benefits of the oversampling and filtering and will have removed the problems caused by the SAA7220. However doing all this is quite a lot of work and the costs add up.

The NOS conversion by comparison is quick, easy and cheap which largely explains it's popularity.

I've tried NOS conversions a couple of times and it's definitely NOT to my taste.

Incidentally, Sony based machines using the TDA1541 use Sony's own digital filter chips which seems to have fewer downsides than the Philips SAA7220.
 
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Thats interesting about the TDA 1541, as a company a while ago was offering upgraded Phillips CD304 MkII players with masses of upgrades to make it NOS (Rektangel AS was the company offering these...I think)

They also offered the CD304 mkI which uses the TDA1540 - a 14bit mono chip with numerous modifications.

I've got a 304 mkI that I've been reading about the removal of the oversampling chip...if what the people are saying (Keith Snook is one of them) it seems a very worthwhile modification.

Do you have any experience of this modification? Its totally reversible so not too scary, but any insight into this mod would be interesting.

A bit off the original topic, so should have really opened a seperate thread, so apologies to the OP.
 
Like you i'm trying to sort the wheat from the chaff.
I'm happy with my Cd player but i'm always thinking..what is it capable of??
 
I did a NOS conversion about fifteen years ago. Initially I found the sound much better, much more slam to the sound, much more detailed. It was really exciting to listen to.

Ultimately ,I found the sound quite tiring. I sold it on after a while, but regretted not swapping out the single crown 1541 chip inside.
 
Thats interesting about the TDA 1541, as a company a while ago was offering upgraded Phillips CD304 MkII players with masses of upgrades to make it NOS (Rektangel AS was the company offering these...I think)

They also offered the CD304 mkI which uses the TDA1540 - a 14bit mono chip with numerous modifications.

I've got a 304 mkI that I've been reading about the removal of the oversampling chip...if what the people are saying (Keith Snook is one of them) it seems a very worthwhile modification.

Do you have any experience of this modification? Its totally reversible so not too scary, but any insight into this mod would be interesting.

A bit off the original topic, so should have really opened a seperate thread, so apologies to the OP.

The TDA1540 is 14 bit but uses oversampling to get to 16 bits, if you non oversample then you get an extra 12dB of distortion which may sound exciting for a bit, no pun intended, but I expect it would get tiring after a while, as mentioned before a different analogue filter stage would be necessary because the sampling frequency is so close to the stop band, it is very tricky to do and if you could do that then you could design a better DAC anyway.
 
Hmm thats interesting...non of the articles mention this fact.
They all quote improved "original" 14 bit sounds from104/304 CD players...this could just be the exciting initial sound you describe.
Tough decisions ahead, as I was planning to try the NOS conversion.
I'll have to look into this a bit further I think.
 


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