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TD125 Vs LP12

Hi Mike,

Thorens 'Reference'; initially intended to be a technology test bed, but it was decided that 200 units would be produced. Rumour has it that somewhat more than that number were made prior to the eventual release of the 'Prestige' in 1983 (the year before Linn began glueing little plywood corner blocks into LP12 plinths)...

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So if I stick with the 125 instead, what would be a serious arm upgrade worth checking out? I've had an SME 3009 and it didn't sound any different to the stock arm, worse in some cases.
 
I’m a big fan of the 125 but it’s very hard to make a case for the Thorens bearing being better than the Linn. Bearing play is the first thing I’d check, especially on the 125II. Likewise the platter is made out of filthy stuff compared to the Linn and it is very hard to claim the machining is better. And finger holes?

I’m not a fan of the four spring suspension or the nylon adjusters either.

My 125 is at its best playing classical music with stock mat, SME and Shure cart - where it is simply excellent. I’ve tried the Ittok and the Morch is good. But at the end of the day, for rock and jazz, I’d take the Linn.

Other good turntables are available and may be preferred.
 
john & Jake said:
I have upgraded my Linn with what I feel are sensible upgrades eg. Cirkus bearing, Majik subchassis and Rega rb330 arm.
Each of these items work together in a mechanical manner to produce a solid basis from which the cartridge can work.
I wonder whether the linn detractors have listened to a well set up deck that is on song.
Mine has been set up by myself and when persevering to get it right it can be plainly heard when it is not quite there and when it is singing.
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I have listened to so many Sondeks, right up to the latest Cirkus and all the trimmings. It is a decent deck and many are happy with it, and will be for life. It does not deserve to be lambasted for being shite, nor praised for being the highest of high end; it is neither in my opinion.

The 125 was precision engineered from the very beginning and has many features that Linn owners have upgraded to. It's the one I would prefer but that is a singular opinion and I don't offer it to persuade anyone that I am right.
 
In answer to the arm question, with all suspended decks the weight needs serious consideration. I had excellent results with an Audiomods and both Denon (DL304 and DL-S1) and AT cartridges.

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That's a sweet looking 125 Oldius.

My own TD125 mk2 was console mounted (aka build into a sideboard) by the previous owner (a family friend). When he gave it to me he simply cut it out with a jigsaw and it was handed to me with a chunk of sideboard still attached!

Over a weekend I hastily knocked up an MDF plinth for it and never got around to putting it in something more attractive. I really must treat it to a nicer looking plinth.
 
matt j said:
So if I stick with the 125 instead, what would be a serious arm upgrade worth checking out? I've had an SME 3009 and it didn't sound any different to the stock arm, worse in some cases.
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I don't know about putting a really good arm on it. It probably depends on the state of your particular example: Abbydog mentions play in the bearing and mine bears that out: both the 160 I had and the 147 I still own were much better. And then there's the motor: many develop a tic-tic, or have a slightly bent spindle, and decent replacements aren't cheap or easy to source. I don't think a less than ideal example is going to major on detail so fitting an arm with strengths in the areas of detail or subtlety might not yield especially impressive results. Mine didn't suit a Nima, which sounds really good on my Gyro. But with an RB300 it really punches out the music. A different mat also helped clean and speed up the sound on mine: I splurged on an Achromat but a cheap felt one was also much better than the stock Thorens. A posh Origin Live belt also made a very noticeable difference - although I wouldn't actually recommend it: too wide (I took a knife to mine).

But if you want a night and day difference it's got to be worth at least trying a different deck.
 
As always, the condition is everything. I was very fortunate that mine looked almost unused: the bearing and pulleys were in pristine nick so all I had to do was give the bearing a thorough clean and lube; replace the belt (Thacker Germany) and then have a bespoke plinth and armboard made by Russ Collinson to my own specification. I had a number of decks at the time but the 125 is one that I would have again if I became similarly disfunctional and felt the need to surround myself with analogue audio equipment!
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Its a bit like asking if my 1972 1303 Beetle is better than a porsche.

Which Porsche?

1986 924? or 2011 GT3?

I know Linn are nothing like Porsche but the analogy holds for the Variety of available specifications.

A top spec LP12se in a Stilletto plinth, is as good a sound as I have heard from a record player by any manufacturer, including thorens.
 
Seanm said:
I don't know about putting a really good arm on it. It probably depends on the state of your particular example: Abbydog mentions play in the bearing and mine bears that out: both the 160 I had and the 147 I still own were much better.
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What is the cause of the bearing play? Chances are it can be fairly easily fixed by replacing the bushings, that is certainly the case with the TD-124 anyway.

FWIW as an ex-Linn and current TD-124 owner I was surprised by just how flimsy and lightweight a TD-150 that passed through my hands for a while was. Not in the same ballpark as an LP12 for sure, but in fairness it was a budget deck priced well below the stunningly well constructed TD-124 and its eventual replacement the 125. I’ve never worked on a TD-125 though so have no idea how that shapes up, though the cast chassis looks fairly encouraging! Not a clue what the main bearing is like though (the 124’s is very substantial indeed).
 
Having worked on both I can say that the mechanical build quality of the 125 is on the same level as the 124 Tony. Think of the 125 as a belt drive 124 if you see what I mean and you'll get the right idea.

I agree with Sean, the weak link is the motor from my experience. There are several different variations of the motor and pulley and I was only 100% satisfied after swapping out the motor on mine to one with a different pulley/spindle design and then fitting a fancy machined alloy aftermarket pulley.

The electronics also need to be in good order and set up properly.
 
Mike P said:
Having worked on both I can say that the mechanical build quality of the 125 is on the same level as the 124 Tony. Think of the 125 as a belt drive 124 if you see what I mean and you'll get the right idea.

I agree with Sean, the weak link is the motor from my experience. There are several different variations of the motor and pulley and I was only 100% satisfied after swapping out the motor on mine to one with a different pulley/spindle design and then fitting a fancy machined alloy aftermarket pulley.

The electronics also need to be in good order and set up properly.
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The 125 was a very expensive deck at launch.
 
Tony L said:
What is the cause of the bearing play? Chances are it can be fairly easily fixed by replacing the bushings, that is certainly the case with the TD-124 anyway.
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The whole bearing housing can be replaced on the Mk1, AIUI, but not the Mk2. With mine (Mk2) it's just a case of it not being a very tight fit. The 147 is much better in this respect - but like the 150, the sub-chassis is pretty light weight. The 125's is really very substantial. Some day I'll put the Rega arm on the 147 to see what makes the most difference.
 
Seanm said:
The whole bearing housing can be replaced on the Mk1, AIUI, but not the Mk2. With mine (Mk2) it's just a case of it not being a very tight fit. The 147 is much better in this respect - but like the 150, the sub-chassis is pretty light weight. The 125's is really very substantial. Some day I'll put the Rega arm on the 147 to see what makes the most difference.
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Just had a look at The Analogue Dept and the 125 bearing looks to come in two variants, the first looking like a scaled-down 124 bearing with a captive ball on the shaft, the later ones being a machined point similar to the LP12. The bearing housing looks very standard with two bronze bushing inserts, though it having a fixed/sealed bottom cap will make replacement far harder than with a 124, which having a removable thrust-plate means you can just knock the old bushings out and easily push new ones in.

I’m surprised so little in the way of a third-party spares market has arrived for the TD-125 at this point. I’m sure someone could make a few quid making upgraded bearing housings etc. As time goes on more and more options arrive for the 124, 301, Lenco etc, to the extent you can now rebuild all but real basket-cases. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the 125/126 wern’t the next decks to be re-discovered. I’d rather like to have a mint boxed one stashed under my bed as I suspect they are undervalued at present!
 
Yes, shame the after market for (most) Thorens is so limited. Again though the really critical spare for most models would be the motor, and I doubt that could be done.

By the way, if anyone does have a spare mk2 motor they'll part with at a reasonable price, do get in touch!
 
Tony L said:
I’d rather like to have a mint boxed one stashed under my bed as I suspect they are undervalued at present!
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Well, mine isn't mint and it's in a cupboard rather than under the bed - but they must have been severely undervalued at the time I bought it at the NVCF around ten years ago. I think I paid £60 including hinged lid. It rotates at the correct speeds, or at least did back then - it's been in the cupboard ever since. Is there a good website for refurb/servicing tips?

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Marchbanks said:
Well, mine isn't mint and it's in a cupboard rather than under the bed - but they must have been severely undervalued at the time I bought it at the NVCF around ten years ago. I think I paid £60 including hinged lid. It rotates at the correct speeds, or at least did back then - it's been in the cupboard ever since. Is there a good website for refurb/servicing tips?

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Looks great, I bet that would clean up very nicely. I really like the look of the 125; very understated ‘70s (I know it is technically a ‘60s deck, but even so!).
 
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