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Tannoy Monitor Golds

Is this really the case though? I think at the factory the Girdacoustic ribs were fitted to the cone after the surround (see here: http://www.44bx.com/tannoy/recone1.html) therefore to fit the surround under the ribs requires their (at least partial) removal and reinstatement. The surrounds being glued to the rear of the cone is only enabled due to the sequencing of construction.

Cutting the notches out to clear the ribs will allow the cone to be rear mounted maintaining the factory appearance but does mean that cone-surround interface is marginal (1mm?) at eight points around the circumference. I think it is better to have the full width of the surround lip glued to the cone lip (5mm all round) on the front if you are not going to go to the extent of removing and replacing the ribs (which in itself is a risk).

Obviously full cone replacement is preferable, but do yourself or Cooky have any other objections to the front attachment of replacement surrounds beyond appearance? Nearly all of the recones I see are glued to the front of the cone lip without any cutting of the surround lip.

OK heres my 2p worth;
A refoam is a compromise.
Rear mounting the foam helps you ensure the driver voice-coil position(height) is correct in the gap when the cone is at rest. The cone edge sits in the small elbow after the roll in the surround. As the spiders in these drivers may be getting on a bit it avoids introducing yet another variable.
Ideally it would be best to get the foam edge under the ribs but it's very awkward as originally the foam will have been compressed by the petal/hot glue, often the foam under the glue hasn't rotted, you run a high chance of cutting into the cone edge in trying to remove it and finally when you do get the foam under again it can leave a tell-tale shallow pinch/dimple in the surround roll.
So if this proves a sod to do I notch the surround-it's more like 3mm at its narrowest as you have the cone shoulder/edge to glue to too and I sometimes run a very narrow bead of glue in the elbow I mentioned above from the front.
If the 8 points of 3mm concern you, bear in mind the 15" 3833/36's drivers get by with about 4 mm all round.

Just my honest opinion of course, there are others equally of value.

P.S. Pay particular attention to the tightness/evenness of the spider clamp ring nuts-avoid any deformation of the ring.
 
I agree a refoam is a compromise but does seem to be a route that many go and I've heard refoamed drivers sounding great in the past.

I can see that there will be probably 1 or 2mm difference in the position of the cone lip with respect to the surround depending upon which way round the cone is fixed but I would have thought the spider would nullify this by the time it gets to the magnet gap - I take your point about the variable compliance of older spiders, etc.

Have you ever heard any deleterious effects of a refoam to the front lip? Obviously it looks neater but I wonder if Tannoy would have gone for this arrangement if they had foreseen just how quickly some of the Tannoplas surrounds disintegrated.
 
I've refoamed more than a few, all with excellent results- a sticky surround is a knackered surround that impacts enormously on the sound quality-trouble is it happens over time and its only once its replaced does the dramatic improvement surprise you.
If Tannoy had gone with the front lip route they'd have designed the surround profile/dimensioning differently-possibly even altering the speaker frame, to arrive at the desired performance.The point regarding the voice coil height is that whatever way the error it is in one direction and so the coil may behave in an unequal manner outward/inward.
15-20 years lifespan is hardly an issue in my opinion.The cone should terminate at the roll edge and when the cone moves the roll moves with it, NOT the inside of the gully. Cone movement is upset by this extra/new hinge point when refoamed from the front.
I bought some front surrounded Berkeleys a few years back that were very disappointing-as I was a bit OCD re Tannoys at the time I reconed them-these days I'd go for a refoam.
I'd argue rearmount gives you piece of mind.
I get the impression you'd opt for front mounting.
 
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FWIW given the quality and exceptional potential of these drivers I'd just pay for a full recone. A quick look at the price of a new pair of Tannoys indicates how much of a bargain it is to get them back working right.
 
FWIW given the quality and exceptional potential of these drivers I'd just pay for a full recone. A quick look at the price of a new pair of Tannoys indicates how much of a bargain it is to get them back working right.

I'm incline to agree or at least as I said recently to IanW a refoam will buy you another 5-8 years not the 20 years life of the foam as the other mechanicals will be probably getting past it by then and a full recone will be due.
 
I think we all agree that a full recone is the best option, maybe using the HE surround although I accept that makes it a new speaker.

I'm not particularly biased either way, just when I was looking at recones nearly all the ones I've seen are on the front and I recalled your stating that this was the wrong way round. So I thought I would ask the question.
 
I'm incline to agree or at least as I said recently to IanW a refoam will buy you another 5-8 years not the 20 years life of the foam as the other mechanicals will be probably getting past it by then and a full recone will be due.

Would you have older models reconed as a matter of course then? Surely the other 'mechanicals' of silvers/red/golds etc are going to suffer from the same ageing as HPD's, aside from the surround? Or are you thinking that the slow degradation of the foam surrounds causes additional wear or stress to the rest of the speaker?

With regard to replacement surrounds, I've replaced the foam surrounds on 4 or so pairs of HPD's (and a pair of 3128's) and I've always followed what seems to be the accepted best practice of attaching them to the rear. It's not so difficult to do if you're patient in the preparation and I haven't really felt that trimming the new surrounds so that they fit neatly around the ribs compromises the security of the fit. Wembley, Speakerbits and various other outfits must have serviced thousands of pairs of HPD's in this way and I've never read of them failing in that respect.

However with the ever increasing value of vintage Tannoys, I might be inclined to go for a full recone too if I got another pair.
 
I'd love to know this myself too. I've never had the opportunity to hear a stock pair of Golds, Reds or whatever against a reconed pair and it certainly appears that very few people do recone them unless they have actually been damaged. My Golds are entirely stock and seem to be in really good condition bar a little daylight fading to the cones, but I bet they are off spec to some degree even though they still sound superb.
 
Would you have older models reconed as a matter of course then? Surely the other 'mechanicals' of silvers/red/golds etc are going to suffer from the same ageing as HPD's, aside from the surround? Or are you thinking that the slow degradation of the foam surrounds causes additional wear or stress to the rest of the speaker?

However with the ever increasing value of vintage Tannoys, I might be inclined to go for a full recone too if I got another pair.

Good questions, spiders fatigue, sag, go off spec, surrounds stiffen, dry out( for want of a better description)over time though they won't all age in the same way or to the same degree. If I had Golds I'd buy a pair of recone kits just i case the supply dries up. I'm nearly 60 so a recone now would outlive me by quite a margins and they be like new. TBH they've probably increased in value in the past 2 years enough to pay for the recones! I'd be wary of buying a pair of HPDs that had been driven with their surrounds torn or gone for the reasons you mention.
 
I'm not sure reconing the older pre-HPD models would do their value much good ironically, as people seem to favour pairs in original condition. It's likely that pairs that have been reconed might be seen as pairs that may have had a harder life.

I'm using 10" HPD's with rubber surrounds and as they're superficially in good nick I'd be unlikely to have them reconed unless some terrible accident befell them, as I'm not confident whether or not I'd hear any difference to make the cost worthwhile I s'pose.

Wasn't that MainlyTannoy guy selling 'new build' reds and golds on ebay recently (out of unused chassis and new cones/diaphragms presumably), or did I imagine that?
 
Agreed. I think the only way to do it to retain investment potential would be to keep the original cones along with pictures of them installed as evidence, i.e. show they weren't torn and had the correct impedance etc. I can't see myself ever changing from Tannoys, I'll have them for the rest of my life, so the investment thing only really factors in the unlikely event I ever found a mint pair of 15" Reds at a price I could justify (I'd love to as that is what would have originally been fitted to my early-60s Lockwoods). I can't see myself ever selling the Golds otherwise.
 
Interesting, the cone is just a moving part, i see it as no different to rebuilding/ restoring a valve Quad or 301 to original spec/performance.
 
Interesting, the cone is just a moving part, i see it as no different to rebuilding/ restoring a valve Quad or 301 to original spec/performance.

A moving part that presumably makes a significant contribution to the Monitor Gold "sound" though. As such, if the new cone material isn't identical to the original cone material then you likely won't be restoring the driver back to its original stock sound, no?
 
A moving part that presumably makes a significant contribution to the Monitor Gold "sound" though. As such, if the new cone material isn't identical to the original cone material then you likely won't be restoring the driver back to its original stock sound, no?

Obviously if the cones were different then of course they wouldn't be the same would they?
Do you have a source/info that says they differ?
I can understand some collectors want 'vintage' in every way original as they left the factory 60 years ago sense btw.
In an interview recently Tannoy made reference to the fact they can no longer source a reliable supply of the right kapok fibres and had to reformulate the cone materials in the Prestige range-something to ponder regarding my 'cone supplies running out' paranoia I raised earlier ;-)
 
I'm reluctant to keep raising concerns but has anyone else been following Lockwood's recent offerings on eBay? I'll refrain from commenting directly as I don't want to breach any AUPs, but you'll see my point if you look at the image of the driver in this listing
 
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My Devons have been refoamed by previous owner, glue over part of the cones a bit like this one, they work fine though.
 
It is technically wrong, though the cone is comparatively thin, the foam very flexible and if anything it will nudge the voicecoil further into the magnet gap, which may even be a good thing at anything below stupid volume. My main complaint is it is just a bit ugly, and, well, wrong! By saying that I’d go the whole hog and recone them to get a new spider etc too.
 
It is technically wrong, though the cone is comparatively thin, the foam very flexible and if anything it will nudge the voicecoil further into the magnet gap, which may even be a good thing at anything below stupid volume. My main complaint is it is just a bit ugly, and, well, wrong! By saying that I’d go the whole hog and recone them to get a new spider etc too.

Yes, it's more the untidiness of the end result that bothers me too (i.e. the uneven overlap between the cone edge and surround and the excess glue drip), particularly when re-foaming is a core part of the business. Perhaps it just takes too much time these days to do an aesthetically neat job, which is rather a shame for owners wanting to use their speakers without the grilles. (I know many will argue that vintage Tannoy DCs weren't originally made with aesthetic beauty in mind, but there are far uglier vintage loudspeaker drivers in existence IMO!)
 
I have to admit that is part of the reson I’d just drop the cash on a proper recone and get lovely fresh clean dark blue-grey cones! If I could see my very clean but rather faded Monitor Golds at all I’d be very tempted to recone them, but as my Lockwood Universals have fixed grilles it is no issue.
 
I remember someone on the yahoo Tannoy group mentioning some paper treatment they used that restored their faded cones to something closer to an 'as new' appearance. Might have been Hans actually though can't really remember - I know whoever it was was VERY careful not to actively recommend it in case of unforeseen damage etc. I did ask and was told what the fluid/treatment was called, but I didn't pursue it.
 


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