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tannoy legacy series

Discussion in 'audio' started by yuckyamson, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. tonerei

    tonerei pfm Member

    Thanks Phil, Going by their site a pack of four is fine for the Cheviots. 36kg support and the speakers weigh 29kg. But my initial findings with the Tesco black granite chopping boards is very positive placed on top of the Cheviots. If it bares out over repeated listening those pucks will not be sufficient.

    Did a bit of checking last night and with the exception of a few mentions on av forums very few people seem to have tried putting weights on the top of speakers. That might be because it does nothing but I think it does with these Tannoys.
    hifinutt likes this.
  2. hifinutt

    hifinutt hifinutt

    funnily enough i have some B&w 607 s2 anniversary on top of my eatons , for an AV system . personally dont think weights would make much difference
  3. John

    John Fore!

    Found a great app that allows you to easily measure toe in angle. I just reduced mine to 30 degrees which crosses the axis a foot or so in front of me. I had them at 36 degrees which I think was a bit too much. They imaged great but I think I may have lost detail. The current setup has them at 7.5 degrees off axis at the listening position.
  4. JTC

    JTC PFM Villager...

    I'm wondering whether, on my carpeted room (with underlay), I might be better off with the Tannoy spikes than the feet. I haven't tried spiking the Ardens yet, but am curious what differences (if any) are typical between coupled (spikes) and un-coupled (feet; I'm hesitating to describe them as decoupled since they're not actively doing anything to prevent vibrations from going into the floor etc.). Floor is 120 year old pitch pine over a shallow cavity (~2'). I don't have any time to experiment until the weekend but I'm curious nonetheless....
  5. John

    John Fore!

    I posted this earlier from the Tannoy DMT Studio Monitor reference guide. The application is a bit different to your Ardens but it’s interesting. The spikes might give you the brighter presentation you’re looking for. Certainly worth giving a try if you already have the toe in axis crossing in front of you a bit.

    cooky1257 and hifinutt like this.
  6. tonerei

    tonerei pfm Member

    Probably sick of me banging on about it John but here getting the speakers off the ground on a board with castors and using the carpet supports in the speakers, toed-in as John outlines above and now with the addition of granite slabs on top of the speakers I am astounded by the result. I know it is just a subjective opinion and may not work at all for you but I am in a similar position. Heavy underlay carpet on suspended timber floor. Sounding really clear and detailed with tighter natural low frequencies.

    I see they still sell those granite pieces £14.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  7. John

    John Fore!

    cooky1257 likes this.
  8. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    Do you have a slighly off-axis measurement.
    It would be interesting to see how much the broad depression between 1.5kHz and 4kHz would drop if one were to listen some 10º off-axis.

    This is often the problem with conventional non-waveguided speakers but the Mini uses a coax and may not be affected.
  9. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog

    No, but I can measure to find out! :) Do you want it at 1m or 2m distance?

    EDIT - I found a 1m nearfield measurement where I varied the height of the microphone. Not sure how many degrees off-axis each movement was, but it'll give you some idea until I can take proper off-axis measurements:

    tuga likes this.
  10. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    Really good off-axis balance (hardly any difference) as expected.
    I'd probably settle with the purple toe-in to address the top end issue that you mentioned before.

    Another advantage of a coaxial mid/tweeter is that the vertical dispersion pattern is identical to the horizontal one minimising reflection issues.
  11. shrink

    shrink pfm Member

    im not convinced spikes vs feet will make much difference. I have many of the same feelings about my eatons and they are spiked on dedicated 50cm high atacama stands. Into solid wooden floor with no carpet, in a fairly reflective and live room.

    with all those differences in play and the signature generally the same, I’d suggest that this is simply part of the design and sonic signature of this range and can’t be “tweaked out”.

    I tried some EQ in roon and that definitely helped matters as well. I’d suggest if you feel
    A need to tweak these to try and be happier, that maybe it’s time for different speakers.

    I’ve gotten used to them and enjoy what they do, having come from much brighter sounding speakers, they took some time to acclimatise to!
  12. JTC

    JTC PFM Villager...

    I hear you, but as I've stressed a few times, in my case (at least) we're really talking a minor adjustment, not a major thing. Definitely not a case of changing speakers, so much as figuring out how to get the best from them. In my case, I've the Ardens on the little flat feet, sitting on a medium-pile carpet with underlay over a suspended floor. I've got management approval to get two 60x60cm concrete paving slabs and put the Ardens on top of those (with spikes). The slabs would probably just sit on the carpet pile. If that works, I cover them in nice velvet or something to make them look a little less 'concretey'. I'm sure that this will possibly lighten the mid-bass, which is already super tight but a tad fuller than neutral I think. That might be all the adjustment the audio spectrum needs to sound more 'balanced'. In any case, other than actually getting the slabs - maybe a tenner for two new ones? - it's an easy experiment without any real down-side. Just have to find the time to try.

    And also I have a backlog ticket to measure my room. Maybe this weekend :)
  13. shrink

    shrink pfm Member

    As someone who uses them on rigid stands, well away from every side wall and back wall, spiked to a solid floor, I can be fairly sure putting them on concrete will make zero difference.

    These things weigh quite a lot. How much energy do you genuinely think is being lost / transferred etc by having them on carpet.

    as with much hifi nonsense, I’m not sure the laws of physics are on your side with your theory. It would have to be shown that their current support system was somehow inadequately capable of preventing movement of the cabinet during driver exertion.

    as with “messy sounding Amps” as a result of not having adequate support, it’s continued Hifi nonsense with far greater imagined gains that are actually factually present.

    perhaps try some room EQ and use a target curve to bring down mid bass, that’s likely to have more real world benefit.
    Tw99 likes this.
  14. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    There's a significant difference between a solid and a suspended floor.
  15. Elephantears

    Elephantears Trunkated Aesthete

    Can you tell us something about the physics and acoustics, if you have time?
  16. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    Beam and block floor is thicker and denser than a suspended timber floor, as is a reinforced concrete slab.
    But mostly old floorboards can become somewhat loose, old tongues may break, old joists may rot, etc. At loud volumes this may create audible resonances.
  17. shrink

    shrink pfm Member

    yes but as i don't listen loud, can you tell me what the floor is adding to the audio experience? My stands are open and place the drivers significantly above floor level, minimising reflection (there's also a huge and very deep pile rug between speakers and me). I think theres a lot of people out there who have the "idea" that carpet, spikes, floors, feet, slabs, supports all sound different, mostly because they either want them to, or because having spent huge amounts of money, they NEED them to. I've never heard a speaker stand make any difference to the way a speaker sounds in over 24 years of this hobby.
  18. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    I don't disagree that most of these differences will be minimal but changing the interface from solid spikes to rubber or blu-tak will change the resonant frequency of the (speaker-stand) system.
    You can read a bit about it in Jim's piece "Spikes and Cones – What’s the point?".
    In my case I ended up placing foam pads under 120lbs floorstanders at one time because I could feel perhaps more than hear the floorboards rattle.

    Stand construction may also affect response by virtually extending the baffle of the speaker and thus creating a reflective surface.

    Raising the woofer further from the floor lowers the floor bounce cancellation frequency. This may or may not be helpful depending on your room and listening position
    You can use this calculator do determine the frequency for your particular setup:

    The huge and very deep pile rug will mostly likely only absorb the treble, and upper-mids at best. I personally couldn't live without a carpet or rug in the listening room.
    Seanm likes this.
  19. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    One would think, when wishing to limit the movement of a loudspeaker on a stand or on the floor then kinetic friction and the coefficient of friction of the material surfaces would be a consideration.

    A logical conclusion would be a sufficiently heavy loudspeaker and stand wont move....

    The DMT link above is rather specific to that system of enclosure construction where the internal floating brace/driver/laminated side panels already damp the driver vibrational movements.
  20. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog


    This was the response I got from the Autograph Mini at my listening seat in April 2020. The graph shows the left and right speakers individually. That was when the speakers were sitting on top of my Edinburgh cabinets, which put the Mini's 4-inch driver about 130cm above the floor, hence the lack of bass. (Anechoically the Minis are only supposed to be -6dB down at 68Hz). They were toed-in to cross in front of the listening seat, I estimate around 13-degrees off-axis but can't remember exactly.

    This was the response after I applied EQ to soften the high frequencies. I also applied a small reduction around 500Hz to reduce a little bit of subjective midrange bloom. The graph shows the averaged response of the left and right speakers before and after EQ.

    Now for the measurements you requested, hot off the press today! ;) Nearfield from 1 metre, changing the horizontal toe-in by 5-degree increments from 0-degrees to 40-degrees:

    Measurements with front grille off.

    Measurements with front grille off LAYERED.

    Measurements with front grille on.

    Measurements with front grille on LAYERED.

    As you can see, the mid frequencies remain exceptionally smooth when measured off-axis. The flattest HF response appears to be achieved with the grille on and 20-degrees off-axis.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
    Hoopsontoast and tuga like this.

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