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Tannoy HPD differences in sound of 12" and 15"

Robn

Robn

pfm Member
Bought a pair of Cheviots recently, as the surrounds were spent had Lockwood recone them (great service), fitted better speaker terminals, cleaned crossover switches and rewired internal wire with Mogami. Roger at Lockwood said it takes several 100 hours for them to break in, but already after maybe 50 hours they sound superb. Can't believe that despite the slightly rough high frequency performance how much more I like them than much pricier speakers I've had before eg PMC OB1 or the pair of Arcs I currently have. Roger also seemed to suggest that after a recone the speakers are good for 30 years, much longer than I've seen referred to elsewhere.

Listening to Garbage first LP and there are so many layered guitar parts I'd never really heard or felt the force of before.

Anyway I've read that better cabs can yield even better results. Before I consider that I'd want to investigate whether there's much to be gained by moving to 15" HPDs?

Does anyone have any experience of comparing both they can share.
 
Robn

Cant give you a comparison, but Ive travelled a very similar route with the HPD 15's. Recone/new crossovers from Lockwood - as you say great service. Internal rewire with Mogami!! Originally in Berkeley cabs now in 300litre homemade jobs picked off Hans's site. LOTS of bracing fair amount of damping. Pair of Audiosmiles supertweets. All rounded off with a pair of Les's Voyagers. Room size about 9m x 5m.

Ceratinly the grip and "ease" with which they play is awsome. Like you I always think that if speakers can cope with Rammstein, Rage against the Machine, Trivium and a bit of Rory Gallagher thrown in, they're doing ok!

From my very limited reading the room size is a main determinant whether 12 or 15 is the right choice, with the sound characterisitcs being the same. There seems to be no doubt that a "better" (read bigger?) cabinet is recommended - have a look on Hans Tannoy site for loads of options. Closed, ported, horn loaded etc all there to choose.

Good luck
Steve.
 
Steve,
Thanks for that, it is all very helpful and I'll check Hans Tannoy site. Yours sound very interesting especially the supertweeters. The room here is a slightly smaller through lounge, about 3.5 x 7.5m. Also interested that you can buy new crossovers from Lockwood, presume these are adapted for the super tweeters.

Robin
 
Had them both. Devons with hpd 12" and currently 15 " Berkely with stiffened cabs, slabbed custom stands and slate tops .

The sound you describe is what Tannoy are all about. I use a valve amp and phono stage .........no complaints with treble though not as "sparkly" as a good ceramic tweeter .

With a smalL/med room I don't think you are missing anything with the 12 If you wanted more bass just go for a bigger Cab. Mine were the small Devons..........superb!
 
Robin

Dont ask me "technically" why - But the supertweets are simply "linked in" with the feed to the main speakers. I have had this explained but it doesnt mean much to me! Simon at Audiosmile would give you the explanation if you ever considered that route.

However, you raise an interesting question, and I just dont have the money at present, and thats going fully active! Perhaps another 2 voyagers and an appropriate active crossover, and lift off!!

Im with lexi that a bigger well made cabinet would be worthwhile. Have a good think about the size/volume though - I did the usual thing of wandering around with the measuring tape to make sure they would fit etc. I still crapped myself when they were shoved(by 3 guys) out the back of my mates van! The panel size is one thing - its not until its all nailed together that the total volume hits you - "Er" indoors needed a bit of persuading.

There are threads on here from Speedysteve(??) who had made some teriffic looking horn loaded cabs for Tannoys.

Steve.
 
Hi Robn

I've been a fan of Tannoy speakers for many years, and horn speakers per se.

Rather than tell you what you already know, here's a couple of gems to investigate at your leisure ;)

* There are a lot of mid-range horns on the market, and I've heard a good quantity of them. Whether they are built into the middle of a paper cone or seperate drive units, *all* of them that I've seen can benefit from either a) an eq 'tweak' to raise the upper treble or b) a high frequency tweeter.

We're talking about the 'shimmer' on a cymbol and similar glassy top parts, not an overall treble necessity - this is a tweak to hear things a little better.



Lastly, cabs. bigger is better yes, and hornloaded the best of all worlds IME. Many people find that the smaller cabs give them everything they need, so don't feel a need to change. Its all good :)
 
bottleneck said:
Hi Robn . . . Lastly, cabs. bigger is better yes, and hornloaded the best of all worlds IME. Many people find that the smaller cabs give them everything they need, so don't feel a need to change. Its all good :)
Click to expand...

Quite so.

In a general sense, Tannoy cabinets tended to become smaller as time went on and room sizes shrank, thus leading to several ranges of boxes offered to meet sales/marketing circumstances changing over 25 years or so. However, from the outset, Ronald Rackham's Dual-Concentrics always were intended to be fitted into large, horn-loaded cabinets if the potential of the 15" was to be fully realised.

Nevertheless, entirely acceptable performance could be obtained from a 12" unit (the IIILZ was less successful) in a properly built "Canterbury" reflex enclosure and I enjoyed a pair of these for several years - however, I have no experience of anything post-Gold so can't be specific about the HPD. Room size is the determining factor and, as with enclosures, the bigger the better but not everyone (or his wife!) can accommodate the larger boxes so compromise has to be accepted. The R-GRF is the smallest horn that works well.

I am singularly privileged in having a room 29' X 18' so can indulge myself in what in my experience is the ultimate Tannoy cabinet - and in my judgment, the ultimate speaker - the front and rear loaded corner Autograph. This has to be the Holy Grail and the point to aim for if you can manage it.

Richard.
 
Richard,

One thing I have wondered about corner tannoys - do you fire them down or across your rectangular room? I'd have thought you would struggle to be near the centre line if they are down a 29*18 room unless the HF dispersal is so good it isn't a problem.

Cesare
 
Corner speakers date from the mono days, i.e. there was only ever meant to be one in the room. As such they tend to work best when used in a different orientation for stereo. I've got my DIY corner Lancasters out away from the corners, I think this is how most folk with corner shaped Tannoys use them. The treble is pretty directional on these DC units and drops fast off axis so really you need to fire them at your ears.

Tony.
 
Has anyone here tried horn loading 10 inch HPDs. (I have a pair of Eatons that I don't know whether to sell or experiment with). I am a carpenter, so I am very capable of making the horn cabs, I just don't know whether it would be worth the effort. Also I have never seen plans for horn cabs for the HPD 295 so I wonder if I could just scale down the GF plans?
 
Horn loading is a funny business and needs some specific properties from the driver; you need to ask on say the diy audio forum where some guys who have the right design software hang out. Just scaling it down may not do what you want - the low frequency limit has to do with the horn flare rate, length and mouth size. Throat size has to be scaled to suite driver parameters - there seems to be a lot to it, fortunately there is now software to help with design process.
 
barrymidd said:
Has anyone here tried horn loading 10 inch HPDs. (I have a pair of Eatons that I don't know whether to sell or experiment with). I am a carpenter, so I am very capable of making the horn cabs, I just don't know whether it would be worth the effort. Also I have never seen plans for horn cabs for the HPD 295 so I wonder if I could just scale down the GF plans?
Click to expand...

Can't comment on 10" but 12" definitely worked very well when we put Dev's CPA 12" DC's (paper cone) into my 15" GRF R cabs. They were not bass shy!
Dev's eyes opened WIDE:) Compared with the CPA PA cabs the change in both bass, mid and treble performance was a revelation!
Thread about it here.
http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26132&highlight=tannoy

Based on this you would think 10" could be made to work - modelling needed to reassure before cutting.

Apart from that test I only ever used 15" 3828's, HPD's and Golds in my cabs.
 
At risk of putting words in SS's mouth, "modelling" is using software to calculate the box size required for a particular response from a particular driver (s). It's what PD talks about above, people on DIY audio have the software and can do the sums which will then let youy work out a box size to suit your room.
 
stevec67 said:
At risk of putting words in SS's mouth, "modelling" is using software to calculate the box size required for a particular response from a particular driver (s). It's what PD talks about above, people on DIY audio have the software and can do the sums which will then let youy work out a box size to suit your room.
Click to expand...

Nail - head: I got a pal who's a whizz with this sort of thing to do it for the 3828 driver. Wanted to know if it would work in place of the Golds. It was good news and it does indeed work very well.

For this purpose you can model in parameters each section of the back loaded horn and play around with the dimensions, lengths and flares, matching to the drivers properties to achieve what's on paper (or in the sim) best.
I've not done it myself BTW
 
Tony L said:
Corner speakers date from the mono days, i.e. there was only ever meant to be one in the room. As such they tend to work best when used in a different orientation for stereo. I've got my DIY corner Lancasters out away from the corners, I think this is how most folk with corner shaped Tannoys use them. The treble is pretty directional on these DC units and drops fast off axis so really you need to fire them at your ears.

Tony.
Click to expand...

True, corner speakers had their genesis in monaural days and could be made quite large without intruding into the room as corners nearly always are wasted space anyway. As far as I am aware, the corner variants invariably pre-dated the rectangular versions which usually were introduced to accommodate stereophony. However, the Autograph, regardless of being employed in mono or stereo configuration, requires being corner sited as the adjacent walls are intended to act as horn extension. The corner Lancaster is a different (reflex) animal and might well benefit from being brought away from the walls.

I would agree that listening "on axis" seems to work best with the higher frequencies but they are not as directional as might be expected due to the exponential flair of the high frequency horn being developed by the paper cone. Due to the speaker centreline being an appreciable height from the floor, it is necessary (in theory) to sit in a higher-than-normal chair but I've never bothered.

In my case, Cesare, the speakers are in the corners of the "narrow" end of the room, the furniture of which has to be arranged around the optimal listening position - not entirely convenient but this is MY room. I just make sure I don't interfere in HER room. I'm not much of a cook anyway. Placed in the other orientation would not allow the speakers to work as you already have suggested. In any event, I couldn't afford the extra cable run!

Richard.
 
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