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Tannoy GRF

cooky1257 said:
But they employ a much more complicated 4th order LP/2nd order HF@1khz xover which to quote a Tannoy uk tech "not an implementation we would have used" "1khz is a bit low for the HF".
There's a review here;
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/317/index3.html and here http://www.dagogo.com/TannoyChurchillWB.html
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I noticed the second review shows a Churchill with what looks like a tweeter built into the cabinet, there must have been a couple different versions of this speaker.

Regarding the comment from the Tannoy uk tech, are you saying for the type of (complicated) crossover designed for the Churchill he felt the crossover point was too low. I notice 1.1kHz is the crossover point for quite a few of their speakers. The crossover in the DMT15 is 2nd order overdamped LF; 1st order HF @ 1.1kHz. Not sure what all that means, perhaps someone more knowledgeable can help out.
 
I guess that second review is of the Churchill Wide Band speaker. One thing I noticed about the DMT15's is that there was a mark I version that had a different crossover that was available for a couple of years. A mark II version was then released that had a different crossover, the crossover point was changed from 1.5kHZ to 1.1kHZ, I also think the internal size of the cabinet was increased from I guess using a different or less amount of acoustic material used inside the cabinet. When I placed my initial bid on my DMT15's I was under the impression they were mkI's, I was pleasantly surprised to find out a day later that they were actually mkII's. :)
 
John,

It's nice you scored a Mk II, but my limited experience suggests that there's no such thing as a bad big Tannoy.

Joe
 
John said:
I noticed the second review shows a Churchill with what looks like a tweeter built into the cabinet, there must have been a couple different versions of this speaker.

Regarding the comment from the Tannoy uk tech, are you saying for the type of (complicated) crossover designed for the Churchill he felt the crossover point was too low. I notice 1.1kHz is the crossover point for quite a few of their speakers. The crossover in the DMT15 is 2nd order overdamped LF; 1st order HF @ 1.1kHz. Not sure what all that means, perhaps someone more knowledgeable can help out.
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1.5 khz
 
Joe Petrik said:
John,

It's nice you scored a Mk II, but my limited experience suggests that there's no such thing as a bad big Tannoy.

Joe
Click to expand...
Yeah, I went from anticipating a speaker that was 19 years old to getting one that was 3 years old. There was talk about removing the tweeter to inject more ferofluid into it, I guess that dries up after a number of years and makes the tweeter more susceptable to heat.

I have no clue how all the different Tannoy's sound, I just heard that the Studio line has a flatter frequency response than something like the Prestige line.
 
cooky1257 said:
1.5 khz
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Premature sendulation.
The 215 and 15 mk2 are 1.5 khz. Tannoy have been known to have typo's on there spec sheets.The original 1990 Studio Sound article on the new DMT range has 1.5 as the xover for the larger DMTs-the tone adjust kicks in at 2khz as it would with first order slopes on the hf at 1.5k.
The discussion with the Tannoy Engineer was when I enquired as the the best xover settings on the Tannoy TDX2 digital xover he said to copy as close as poss the passive as this is the best sounding integration of the units and 4th order/2 order slopes at 1.1 k wasn't a good idea-they use 1.5 khz and steep slopes in the CPA range to prolong the tweeter life too.
 
cooky1257 said:
Premature sendulation.
The 215 and 15 mk2 are 1.5 khz. Tannoy have been known to have typo's on there spec sheets.The original 1990 Studio Sound article on the new DMT range has 1.5 as the xover for the larger DMTs-the tone adjust kicks in at 2khz as it would with first order slopes on the hf at 1.5k.
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That typo must be in the brochure and operating/service manual as well because they both say 1.1kHZ for the 15's. The 215's state 1.5kHZ which from what I understand was the crossover point for the mk1 15's as well. The tech I spoke with when inquiring about the differences between the mark 1 and 2 said the crossover was tweaked in the mark 2 version.

Do you have a link to the Sound Studio article?
 
John,

I'd take the article with a grain of salt, but it's similar in ethos to what the Tannoy guy told me when we met the other week.

His take is that the studio monitor series, particularly the big ones like the DMT 15s and 215s, strive for full-range accuracy because they are designed for monitoring -- i.e., letting you hear everything that's on the recording. This means that they don't embellish or mask flaws, so no romantic presentation or glossing over of nasties. They are very much a GI/GO device.

The residential line, in particular the prestige series, take some liberties with the music, but in a way to make it sound more appealing, a charge incidentally that's often levelled at Linn and Naim.

I'm no longer concerned about belonging to a particular group, hi-fi school of thought or cult (except the one of nerds who think the original Star Trek was by far the best). These days I'm after buying hi-fi I enjoy, especially if it comes with a spiffy red velvet cape. ;-)

Joe
 
John said:
That typo must be in the brochure and operating/service manual as well because they both say 1.1kHZ for the 15's. The 215's state 1.5kHZ which from what I understand was the crossover point for the mk1 15's as well. The tech I spoke with when inquiring about the differences between the mark 1 and 2 said the crossover was tweaked in the mark 2 version.

Do you have a link to the Sound Studio article?
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There you go John.
http://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy74.htm
They say the shelving eq on the 12/15/215 kicks in at 2khz-this indicates a 1.5khz xover point.
However you are correct that there's plenty of info about for the 15DMT11 @1.1khz-I reckon they shifted that sharpish after seeing a long line of blown tweeters but I'm guessing.Either way I'm intrigued enough to ring Tannoy tommorow
 
From what understand the crossover was changed on the DMT15's from 1.5kHZ to 1.1kHZ. I found this post on the Tannoy group forum that coincides with what I've heard. That Sound Studio article was done before the mark 2 version came out.

Hello all,

A friend of mine has bought the 15DMT in 1990. In 1992 it has been
upgraded to MK2. Yes, the cross-over is complete different, yes,
there is some extra additional damping in the cabinet. Normally about
2cm thick, with MK2 about 4 cm thickness. I had a 15DMTmk2 from
myself and i can say the cabinets are 100% the same, with in both
cabinets the same crossbracing. So upgrading to MK2 is quite easy.
Due to the crossover, the MK2 has more sensivity. The clearity in the
mid-range and high-section is better.
I have the plans for the mk2 crossover.

kind regards,
Bert Frans
 
I'm a frequent visitor to the Yahoo group.Mmmm Maybe it's a combination of slopes and that 1khz xover freq they weren't happy with.
I find it odd that the flexibility of the 215 mk2( which allows you to disconnect the supplementary bass driver to give a 15 dmt) has the 'old' xover point....defo a call to Tannoy tomorrow;-)
I've dialed the TDX2 down to 1.1k in the past and not enjoyed the experience on the 215's tho'
 
cooky1257 said:
They say the shelving eq on the 12/15/215 kicks in at 2khz-this indicates a 1.5khz xover point.
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I have the operating and service manual's for both mk1 and 2 speakers and there is an inconsistency in both of them. In one place it says the range begins at 2.5kHz(page 4) and another place(page 11) it mentions 2kHz.

The specifications indicate no change to the crossover point for the 215 but the mk2 version lists a different part number for the mk2 crossover.

For the DMT15, the efficiency went from 98 to 101 for the mk2, the internal volume stayed the same but they state a different acoustical wadding being used, TF-1 to TF-2 and the crossover point changed from 1.5 to 1.1 kHz.

Ask Tannoy to email you the newer operating and service manual, the one on the hilberink website is the older one.
 
John said:
I have the operating and service manual's for both mk1 and 2 speakers and there is an inconsistency in both of them. In one place it says the range begins at 2.5kHz(page 4) and another place(page 11) it mentions 2kHz.

The specifications indicate no change to the crossover point for the 215 but the mk2 version lists a different part number for the mk2 crossover.

For the DMT15, the efficiency went from 98 to 101 for the mk2, the internal volume stayed the same but they state a different acoustical wadding being used, TF-1 to TF-2 and the crossover point changed from 1.5 to 1.1 kHz.

Ask Tannoy to email you the newer operating and service manual, the one on the hilberink website is the older one.
Click to expand...
Yeah their documentation could be better.
Changing the xover freq would have no effect on the efficiency, the driver is still the 3833gg the switch from 98 to 101dB/w would correspond to a pair's output-who knows.
On the components in the hf sections of MK1/2 the only difference is the mk2 uses a 4.5uF cap while the mk1 a 4uF.
 
cooky1257 said:
Yeah their documentation could be better.
Changing the xover freq would have no effect on the efficiency, the driver is still the 3833gg the switch from 98 to 101dB/w would correspond to a pair's output-who knows.
On the components in the hf sections of MK1/2 the only difference is the mk2 uses a 4.5uF cap while the mk1 a 4uF.
Click to expand...

Is that the difference in the component parts of the DMT 215? The detailed parts are not listed in the service manual for the DMT215's, but they are for the DMT15's where there appears to be a greater difference.

DMT15v1 - total of 3 capacitors, 3 resistors
Capacitor 1uF 160V
Capacitor 6.8uF 160V
Capacitor 3.9uF 160F

DMT15v2 - total of 2 capacitors, 4 resistors
Capacitor 1.3uF
Capacitor 30uF
Resistor - 10R 17W 10%

Perhaps those differences account for the greater efficiency. Have you spoke with Tannoy?
 
Just clarifying and providing correct information. Why not go listen to some music yourself and chill.
 
NeilR said:
Time to stop obsessing and go listen to some music on the things methinks!
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Ah Neil,
I'm listening now too and even better than yours it sounds too!:D:D
John and I are getting to the bottom of an interesting (to a few) change to the DMT line.

John,
John that isn't the total xover complement just the individual part order no's.That 1.3uf in the MK2 is x 3off to give 3.9uF total on the HF leg. The Mk 1 has a corresponding single 3.9uF cap-so the HF would appear only slightly different between units..... Also the quoted efficiency is 2dB higher than the hornloaded Westminster-this is clearly not correct-I reckon the 101/w figure is for a pair.
Cooky
 
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