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Talkin' all that jazz

ErikL

ErikL

pfm Member
I'm a total newjack to the jazz scene. So far, I like Coltrane a lot and also Miles Davis to a slightly lesser degree. Cannonball Adderley too.

I've tagged supposed classics by Kenny Burrell, Sonny Clark, Mingus, Horace Silver, Wayne Shorter, Hank Mobley, Powell/Parker/Gillespie/etc Quintet, and Art Blakey based on Amazon.com recs.

Where else should I look? Is Blue Note the Stax or Chess of American jazz?

(PS- I tend to dislike the middle-aged-white-men-in-shiny-shirts tinkly stuff)
 
Originally posted by ErikL
Where else should I look? Is Blue Note the Stax or Chess of American jazz?
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Yes. You can buy anything that appears on the Blue Note Label between about 1951 and and 1967 with confidence that it will be totally awesome at the very least, and quite possibly a masterpiece of American music.
Prestige, Riverside, Impulse etc can be approached in more-or-less the same way. You'll be wanting CDs, though, as vinyl is grossly overpriced and CD is perfect sound forever :p

(PS- I tend to dislike the middle-aged-white-men-in-shiny-shirts tinkly stuff)
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And quite rightly so. This is not that. Although there is one middle-aged-white-man-in-a-shiny-shirt involved, he is at the mixing desk ;)
 
I've tagged supposed classics by Kenny Burrell, Sonny Clark, Mingus, Horace Silver, Wayne Shorter, Hank Mobley, Powell/Parker/Gillespie/etc Quintet, and Art Blakey...
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Erik,

here's my modern jazz 'starter pack'...

charles mingus - east coasting
john coltrane - giant steps
miles davis - e.s.p.
serge chaloff - blue serge
bill evans - sunday night at the village vanguard
ornette coleman - change of the century
sonny rollins - saxophone collossus

dave
 
I'm still pretty new to the whole jazz thing, but this has been my way into it:

Miles Davis: In a Silent Way & Kind of Blue
John Coltrane: Ballads
Herbie Hancock: Head Hunters & Takin' Off

Happy listening!
Thom
 
I've just picked up Impressed with Giles Peterson, volumes I and II.

Really good lush, groovy British jazz (not jazz funk) from the 60s. Some real lost gems in there.
 
Fellas,

Thanks to your insights I've just ordered those mentioned in my initial post plus:

Ornette Coleman- Change Of The Century
Albert Ayler- Nuits De La Fondation Maeght
Thelonious Monk- Monk's Dream; Thelonious Monk w/ John Coltrane; Brilliant Corners
Charles Mingus- Mingus Ah Um
Bill Evans- Sunday At The Village Vanguard

A few observations based on my extended sampling: 1) I like this Ayler character. Upon hearing the first sample I thought "Whoa this isn't like anything else I've heard"; 2) I will own more Mingus; 3) Ian is dead on discussing "Ramblin'" from Coleman's "Change Of The Century" in his ZG thread- I was immediately hooked; 4) The above were all fascinating characters, based on the AMG bios I read. Perhaps a few were even utter mentalists.
 
Originally posted by ErikL
Ornette Coleman- Change Of The Century
Albert Ayler- Nuits De La Fondation Maeght
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Sideshowbob is now your bestest friend, ever.
You might also like Andrew Hill, Blue Note's last great discovery (according to Alfred Lion - the co-founder).
Check out Coltrane's late work with Archie Shepp, I have always had a soft spot for Kulu se Mama, a rather mentalist record.
 
Originally posted by ErikL
Ornette Coleman- Change Of The Century
Albert Ayler- Nuits De La Fondation Maeght
Thelonious Monk- Monk's Dream; Thelonious Monk w/ John Coltrane; Brilliant Corners
Charles Mingus- Mingus Ah Um
Bill Evans- Sunday At The Village Vanguard
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Now there's a man with good taste. ;-)

I like this Ayler character. Upon hearing the first sample I thought "Whoa this isn't like anything else I've heard"
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Yeah, that gutbucket gospel/free jazz wailing mixture is damn near impossible to dislike I reckon. Fortunately for your wallet he didn't make a vast number of records. The Live in Greenwich Village Impulse! release is another great one. Nuits de la Fondation Maeght is my favourite Ayler, one of my favourite records full stop, in fact. I predict you will love Mingus's Blues & Roots to the very core of your being, it has that same gospel drive. You'll also almost certainly love Roland Kirk, check out The Inflated Tear as a starter.

The above were all fascinating characters, based on the AMG bios I read. Perhaps a few were even utter mentalists.
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One of the things I enjoy about this music is the people. Interestingly, my favourite musician ever (Coltrane) was almost boringly focused on music to the exclusion of everything else (Ornette likewise), but some of the rest are giants of craziness, in a good way. Mingus was probably certifiable, but in ways that are extremely endearing. Monk was possibly the oddest, most insular man who ever lived, but completely loveable when you watch him play (it's well worth picking up a DVD or two of him in performance). Charlie Parker was the concentrated essence of rock 'n roll, with all the tragedy that entails. Likewise Art Pepper (his autobiography, ironically titled Straight Life, is pretty shocking reading). The list goes on and on...

-- Ian
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
Likewise Art Pepper (his autobiography, ironically titled Straight Life, is pretty shocking reading).
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Funnily enough, I like the work he did towards the end of his life best, when he was but the shattered shell of a man. Totally straight-ahead, but he puts his life and soul into those late 70s albums (which, happily, can be picked up for next-to-nothing). A white middle-aged jazz player worth listening to, no less.
Another vote for Mingus' Blues and Roots, which is quite possibly my favourite album of all time. It is thumpingly, honkingly, messianically brilliant.
Also check out the Art Ensemble of Chicago, I guarantee you will "dig those cats".
 
Great info sideshowbob and joel, I can see an expensive session at Amazon coming up. I really wish I hadn't seen this thread...

Steve.
 
I now keep sideshowbob's jazz guide next to the toilet for a good read. I am very gradually venturing deeper into this stuff (the jazz not the toilet) - and it is very rewarding.
Ornette Coleman is starting to feature via some downloads (in the same way that Mingus did a month or so ago) - and there are definitely some certain buys to be made when i can find them.
That is my main problem though - as a black disc 'head' I haven't got a clue what are good pressings, bad pressings etc. Is there a paper based or on-line definitive guide to jazz vinyl?

As an example - I picked up a copy of Coltrane's Live At The Village Vanguard Again tonight - on the Jasmine label (JAS 16). But no idea whether this is a good example of the record or not. (Can't play it till tomorrow night when I get home).

By the way I got it from a new London shop (for me) called JB Records down Hanwell Street (runs between Oxford Street and Tottenham Court Road). Small but nice (and reasonably priced) bunch of vinyl.
Cheers

Rich

PS I sense another vinyl storage problem coming on at this rate!
 
Rich, I'm glad my words help offer you some relief. :)

There's no definitive guide to jazz vinyl that I know of. As far as Jasmine goes, they're not bad pressings by any means, although the covers are not up to scratch (original Impulse heavy gatefold sleeves are things of beauty, Jasmines look like photocopies in comparison). Given how cheap and easy to find they are, they're generally a good buy, although obviously not as good as an early Impulse pressing.

Hanway Street's on of my regular haunts, did you find On The Beat? About half way up on the right hand side from the Tottenham Ct Rd end.

-- Ian
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
did you find On The Beat? About half way up on the right hand side from the Tottenham Ct Rd end.
-- Ian
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Shit no - but I was semi-pissed in a pre-Xmas drinkies kinda way - sobered up now though - hic.
Ta for the Jasmine info - sounds like a good value option to me - always attractive to a Yorkshireman!

Cheers

Rich
 
"I also think Kind of Blue is the most
over-rated record in jazz history" [SSB].

Miles Davies seems to have been a huge personality. He may have spotted or initiated changes in jazz but I just don't enjoy listening to him. How much of his 'importance' is insider stuff that doesn't relate to the listener? - He seems to be a deity - critics will quote the wind he passes ! Okay I exaggerate[sic].

However....

You have got to be respectful of someone hooked on H - pops home to the folks for a week of cold turkey - drops 'habit' and continues life until dropped at 68 [?] by some' boring little tumour'..

Paul

PS: Joel - sorry - don't do subtle;)
 
I wrote that post a couple of years ago now (it was on the HFC forum originally, and then Groovehandle, before it ended up on ZG) and I've changed my mind about Miles a bit since then. If I was writing it now I'd say more about him. I still think KoB is the most overrated record in jazz history, but it was hearing the Live in Stockholm 1960 recordings of most of the KoB material (with Trane on his last Miles tour, and Sonny Stitt), that changed my mind. 4 CDs of it, the band clearly bored with playing the material yet again, so they really mess with it. Fantastic performances, played much faster and harder than on the studio recordings. Likewise the 1961 Live at the Blackhawk sessions that got a 4 CD box set re-release last year, with the Mobley/Kelly/Chambers/Cobb group, by this time the same basic tunes were being endlessly reinvented, never played the same way twice. Heard that stuff and Miles's method clicked, his groups at this time are a bit like Monk's, playing the same dozen tunes over and over, but always different, always exploring, all the good stuff buried in the intricate detail rather than the familiar riff. Brilliant records.

-- Ian
 
Jumping off on a tangent here....there is a lot of knowledge and information (and talent) here that isn't actually available anywhere - in print or on t'internet. Ian's post is a couple of years old but still gives a great starting point for getting into this jazz stuff. More of this is required - covering all types of music - perhaps a separate section on PFM that holds these docs - e.g. in the FAQs section.
Takes the place into a whole new area (and away from hi-fi - shock horror) but I for one would find it very useful.

So volunteers.........

Put me down for the definitive Postcard Records doc.....due during Xmas hols - promise!

Cheers

Rich
 
More of this is required - covering all types of music - perhaps a separate section on PFM that holds these docs - e.g. in the FAQs section.
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Agreed - that is what the faq room is for. Anything that moves pfm more towards being a 'music site' is good as far as I'm concerned - I have to admit I'm getting really bored of the never-ending circular arguments in the audio section!

Tony.
 
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