Taking the plunge; getting Quad ESL 57 loudspeakers soon!

[mandryka]

Try them raised a little. Expect the sweetspot to be narrow. You will know the moment you leave the the sweet spot. If your listening positions change, mark the spots on the floor that give you good listening conditions. My next upgrade will be an SVS subwoofer or a self-made ripole sub.

That might be a real challenge you know, given that the sweet spot is so narrow adding an extra source may fk up the image completely. Still, getting the timing right will be an interesting crossover project. I think gradient made (maybe make) an ESL 57 system but I’ve never met anyone who’s heard it.

 

[Jodet]

These might be silly questions; I'll ask anyway; why do they need to be charged first and must they be plugged in at all times even when not in use?

These are a totally new type of loudspeaker!

Yes, they need to be charged first if you want to take good care of your panels.

Yes, they need to be plugged in at all times. It takes 24-48 hours to build up a charge on the panels, without it they will not work.

The ELS63 was different here, it charges up quite quickly and can be turned on and off if you like. Trust me, I've owned three pair of 57's - you want them charged all the time.

 

[Cesare]

Yes, they need to be charged first if you want to take good care of your panels.

Yes, they need to be plugged in at all times. It takes 24-48 hours to build up a charge on the panels, without it they will not work.

The ELS63 was different here, it charges up quite quickly and can be turned on and off if you like. Trust me, I've owned three pair of 57's - you want them charged all the time.

I think what you have found is that old ESL57s with dodgy power supplies and panels which are leaky take ages to charge up, but if you have a decent pair, they come on song very quickly. My pair with new power supplies are perfect after 10 minutes, and do not change at all after that (as in, are measurably identical).

This is a plot of one of pair after 1 min, 5 min, 10 min and 1 hour of warmup. The red plot is the 1 min, the other three plots are basically on top of each other, but you can see a bit of the purple plot (5 min) poking below the other plots. This plot was only taken to see how the charging changed, so it was a bit rough and ready hence the spikey lower midrange. You still see the smooth 1 - 10K response though which is what these speakers are all about.

Screenshot 2021-06-23 at 08.41.04 by Cesare Ferrari, on Flickr

The speed of getting up to operating charge is a factor of the power supply, the wiring, and the panels themselves. I replaced the power supply and put in new HT cabling, and found that the panels themselves weren't leaking. Of course each pair may have had very different lives and suffer different problems, but from my perspective I believe that the idea that you need to leave them on all the time by design is nonsense, although older leaky pairs may benefit, but if so, they would probably benefit even more from a service...

 

[Rosewind]

Why would a subwoofer change anything with regard to sweet spot?

My understanding is that if you place one subwoofer smack in the middle between the speakers - other people say a subwoofer may be placed anywhere in the room - I won't have problems. I will probably end up with two subs in the end as that seems to give the best results. I had two subs with a set of Magnepan MC1s in that same room without issues.

Troels Gravesen suggested this with a passive sub: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/High-Pass-Filter.htm I will do this if I ever build the ripole sub(s).

 

[Mike Reed]

My friend has stacked 57son a metal frame. They are certainly a cut above a pair (and maybe SHOULD be); they have more scale and an illusion of more bass.

I could never understand the sub thing, as my blinkered brain has long clung to the argument that you get the speaker which is right for you. If you need to add something, your choice has failed in its initial aim.

You're adding extra box(es). You need to coordinate the timing (esp. difficult with ESLs as Martin Logan will attest). A more capable floor-stander can take up the same floor area as stand-mounts rather than augmenting the latter. Decent subs are as pricey as upgrading/upsizing main speakers, i.m.o.

Dunno, I've always been a big speaker man (as well as having some stand-mounts, LS3/5As incl.) and I assembled my own Heathkit 12" ones in 1965 as my second hifi speaker enterprise, leading to massive DIY Goodmans 15" bass in 1.25 chip cab's plus horn mid and treble in separate cab. above in 1969. Briks, 3 x ProAc Rs, other 12" Goodmans, big KEFs and now big ESLs. If I could find larger ones (which were purportedly being brought out by Quad a couple of years back), I'd go for them.

There again, I do tend to live in the ( analogue) past so my thoughts are probably a bit passe.

 

[Monitor Gold 10]

A minor setback; seller has withdrawn them from sale; found out last night after trying to arrange payment and collection. I'll keep looking though! Thank you all very much for your help and assistance!

 

[Rosewind]

Another option would be Magnepan DWMs but I would either need them to be cheap or to be allowed to demo one or two before committing to buy.

If a sub sounds off with my Quad 57s I will relocate the subwoofer to the tv set-up.

 

[mandryka]

Why would a subwoofer change anything with regard to sweet spot?

My understanding is that if you place one subwoofer smack in the middle between the speakers - other people say a subwoofer may be placed anywhere in the room - I won't have problems. I will probably end up with two subs in the end as that seems to give the best results. I had two subs with a set of Magnepan MC1s in that same room without issues.

Troels Gravesen suggested this with a passive sub: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/High-Pass-Filter.htm I will do this if I ever build the ripole sub(s).

One of the things you hear is that people can’t hear the direction of sounds from frequencies as low as those coming out of a sub. Hence they say, get one and put it anywhere. But I’m not sure if it’s actually true. You may end up with an image which sounds like splashes of treble and midrange from two sides and bass in the middle.

But you may end up with that anyway. The sweet spot is the place where the image is the most coherent. And that’s a function in part of the timing of the different panels on the 57. Adding a sub is adding another source, and complexifying the timing. But I can vouch for this, with ESL 63s and a pair of dipole subs, it is doable, and IMO worth doing, by using a crossover which lets you adjust the timing. It’s a fiddle to set up, takes weeks, but it’s doable. The same may be true for 57s, but I really don’t know.

 

[mandryka]

Another option would be Magnepan DWMs but I would either need them to be cheap or to be allowed to demo one or two before committing to buy.

If a sub sounds off with my Quad 57s I will relocate the subwoofer to the tv set-up.

Why don’t you build a pair of gradient clones and make the crossover with . . . some crossover tech, I know there is something for it. If you don’t like it you could probably recuperate some of the dosh by selling the drivers.

 

[dalryc]

I've had Quads 988 and Magneplanars 3.7s before.

The Maggies needed bass so I supplemented them with a pair of REL woofers and a DSPeaker Anti Mode Dual.
The result was superb - no crossover between the Maggies and the subs were apparent and I had the equivalent of a massive pair of flat response monitors.
I've read that subwoofers are non directional as the wavelength is near that of the distance between your ears - but I found them directional.

I didn't feel that the Quads needed bass augmentation.

 

[chiily]

Not much, other than to enjoy. Also, don't panic if they have any issues with them - they're easily repairable. I miss mine. Sold them to another PFMer who sold them on again. Wouldn't it be strange if you were buying that pair (in which case you can relax - mine were a very sorted pair )

Oh no, they're keepers

 

[tonerei]

My friend has stacked 57son a metal frame. They are certainly a cut above a pair (and maybe SHOULD be); they have more scale and an illusion of more bass.

I could never understand the sub thing, as my blinkered brain has long clung to the argument that you get the speaker which is right for you. If you need to add something, your choice has failed in its initial aim.

You're adding extra box(es). You need to coordinate the timing (esp. difficult with ESLs as Martin Logan will attest). A more capable floor-stander can take up the same floor area as stand-mounts rather than augmenting the latter. Decent subs are as pricey as upgrading/upsizing main speakers, i.m.o.

Dunno, I've always been a big speaker man (as well as having some stand-mounts, LS3/5As incl.) and I assembled my own Heathkit 12" ones in 1965 as my second hifi speaker enterprise, leading to massive DIY Goodmans 15" bass in 1.25 chip cab's plus horn mid and treble in separate cab. above in 1969. Briks, 3 x ProAc Rs, other 12" Goodmans, big KEFs and now big ESLs. If I could find larger ones (which were purportedly being brought out by Quad a couple of years back), I'd go for them.

There again, I do tend to live in the ( analogue) past so my thoughts are probably a bit passe.

Did he bring them to Scalford one year but somehow failed to get the room he booked open because the hotel couldn't find the key? It was a travesty. All that effort to cart them in and he couldn't get access to the room he booked.

 

[misterdog]

The other thing I would do if I were buying them is to try them in mono, with just one speaker. That's what they were built for and you never know, it may be a real revelation.

I wouldn't say that was strictly correct. They were first introduced into a world where sound reproduction only existed in Mono.
Peter Walker's remit was to produce the lowest distortion speaker which also had the least interaction with the room.

http://www.meridian-audio.info/public/pwintnow96[2199].pdf

 

[DimitryZ]

I changed input terminals in mine as well as the back felt, when I owned them.

I also got nice stands from an outfit in one of the Scandinavian countries - they replaced the side pieces with the precisely cut wood that elevated the speakers a good foot or more - and looked great.

I think my wife considered them the best speakers we owned. She may well be right.

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[Mike Reed]

Did he bring them to Scalford one year but somehow failed to get the room he booked open because the hotel couldn't find the key? It was a travesty. All that effort to cart them in and he couldn't get access to the room he booked.

No; although he'd had 57s for years, his stacked installation was only about 3 years ago. We used to go to Scalford together, and I don't think he's ever exhibited there, unlike my other local hifi friend.