Tagging: How do you manage Albums/Tracks with two artists ? (Jriver, but not only)

[Peter Stockwell]

Up until now I've always tagged (mostly) these in a number of ways, and not been consistent. Let's take Sinatra/Jobim The Complete Reprise Recordings.
.

In JRiver the Artist tag can contain multiple items

Artist: Frank Sinatra;Carlos Jobim (The album will be tagged with both artists)

However the Artist sort tag, only allows one item.

Until now, I've only sorted on the primary artist.

Thoughts please.

 

[tuga]

Up until now I've always tagged (mostly) these in a number of ways, and not been consistent. Let's take Sinatra/Jobim The Complete Reprise Recordings.
.

In JRiver the Artist tag can contain multiple items

Artist: Frank Sinatra;Carlos Jobim (The album will be tagged with both artists)

However the Artist sort tag, only allows one item.

Until now, I've only sorted on the primary artist.

Thoughts please.

To me the point of tagging is to help me browse and find what I'm looking for.
For example in Classical music I will use the more generic 'Artist' tag for the ensemble of players – Maestro, Orchestra; Soloist (instrument) – and for the 'Album Artist' tag I choose one artist (the one that interests me most or the most prominent) and add the instrument because sometimes the same artist can be a soloist or a maestro (ex.: Rostropovich).
With Jazz I will again use the 'Artist' tag for the ensemble of players – Bill Evans Trio – and choose one for the 'Album Artist' – Bill Evans.
I can order and/or group the albums by either 'Artist' or 'Album Artist'.
This is using iTunes/Music.

 

[Peter Stockwell]

With Jazz I will again use the 'Artist' tag for the ensemble of players – Bill Evans Trio – and choose one for the 'Album Artist' – Bill Evans.

This is mostly what I have been doing. I don't have much classical, JRiver has more options than Apple Music, you can define a unlimited number of soloists for each album/track.

 

[adamdea]

Up until now I've always tagged (mostly) these in a number of ways, and not been consistent. Let's take Sinatra/Jobim The Complete Reprise Recordings.
.

In JRiver the Artist tag can contain multiple items

Artist: Frank Sinatra;Carlos Jobim (The album will be tagged with both artists)

However the Artist sort tag, only allows one item.

Until now, I've only sorted on the primary artist.

Thoughts please.

I think that’s inevitable given the nature of artistsort isn’t it. But when it sorts by artist 1 does it not still show both artists? Ie does the artistsort define the contents as well as the order. Presumably both still come up when you search? Sorry I don’t have JRiver so not sure how it works.

 

[Peter Stockwell]

G

Presumably both still come up when you search? Sorry I don’t have JRiver so not sure how it works.

If I do an Artist search I'll find them but, let's say I list all the tunes in my library I was looking for a way to index 1 physical copy of a tune, with the two artists that are featured. Put another way, a list of tunes with, say Jobim & Sinatra, will show up twice, once under Sinatra, and another time with Jobim.

There's a work around for this, but I think I'll let it go, that's to have two physical copies of the file(s), I'll never keep them in sync with play counts if I do that!

 

[adamdea]

G

If I do an Artist search I'll find them but, let's say I list all the tunes in my library I was looking for a way to index 1 physical copy of a tune, with the two artists that are featured. Put another way, a list of tunes with, say Jobim & Sinatra, will show up twice, once under Sinatra, and another time with Jobim.

There's a work around for this, but I think I'll let it go, that's to have two physical copies of the file(s), I'll never keep them in sync with play counts if I do that!

what about having a third Jobim-Sinatra "artist"? I appreciate that it now comes up 3 times, but at least you can find the ones they are both on easily.

 

[Peter Stockwell]

what about having a third Jobim-Sinatra "artist"? I appreciate that it now comes up 3 times, but at least you can find the ones they are both on easily.

That's another way to do it, and some would prefer it that way.

 

[tuga]

JRiver has more options than Apple Music, you can define a unlimited number of soloists for each album/track.

That would be way too much work and, in me, totally wasted. That's what Roon's for, I think.

I never use the search field, the column browser is all I need:

 

[camverton]

what about having a third Jobim-Sinatra "artist"? I appreciate that it now comes up 3 times, but at least you can find the ones they are both on easily.

eek! I can see that ending in tears of confusion. JRiver is basically a relational database and that would be a very poor implementation.

I use JRiver and create a view which starts with a list of artists, drawn from the artist field, and then I just click on an artist. In your example I would get a list with both Cobim and Sinatra in it and on clicking either it would take me to the albums in which they appear.

Hope that help a bit although I might not have fully understood your question.

 

[camverton]

That would be way too much work and, in me, totally wasted. That's what Roon's for, I think.

I never use the search field, the column browser is all I need:

Have you used JRiver? I used to use itunes but it is very limited compared to JRiver which, once set up, is far more versatile and easier to enter tags. The proviso is “once set up” for one’s requirement. JRiver does have a learning curve and it helps if one has a rudimentary knowledge (mines very rudimentary!) of regular expressions to get the best out of it.

 

[tuga]

Have you used JRiver? I used to use itunes but it is very limited compared to JRiver which, once set up, is far more versatile and easier to enter tags. The proviso is “once set up” for one’s requirement. JRiver does have a learning curve and it helps if one has a rudimentary knowledge (mines very rudimentary!) of regular expressions to get the best out of it.

I tried JRiver some 10 years ago. I really like iTunes' column browser and use it with a couple of Doug's AppleScripts which make tagging easier. From iTunes I drag-drop into the HQPlayer window.

 

[vacuum_tubes]

Tried jRiver when it first released the Mac version and found it buggy as hell. Tried it again in the last few weeks and found the same problems, it went straight into the trash can after a day or two.

Was using Roon since 2015 but it's now so

Now using aurdirvana which sounds fantastic (but radio paradise is uuaable)

 

[camverton]

Tried jRiver when it first released the Mac version and found it buggy as hell. Tried it again in the last few weeks and found the same problems, it went straight into the trash can after a day or two.

Was using Roon since 2015 but it's now so

Now using aurdirvana which sounds fantastic (but radio paradise is uuaable)

No problem with JRiver MAC version here.

 

[camverton]

I tried JRiver some 10 years ago. I really like iTunes' column browser and use it with a couple of Doug's AppleScripts which make tagging easier. From iTunes I drag-drop into the HQPlayer window.

I used itunes (on a PC) to rip much of my collection of CDs and yes the column browser is very good. I used to have my CDs logged in an Access database (nerdy or what!) and made up a little macro to paste the tags from Access to itunes. I think the important thing is to choose software and file format where the tags are written in the file so that they can be imported into other software if a change is made.

Whilst I like JRiver for ripping and as a database it is playing back music via JRemote, on a tablet or phone, that is its crowning glory.

 

[Peter Stockwell]

The proviso is “once set up” for one’s requirement. JRiver does have a learning curve and it helps if one has a rudimentary knowledge (mines very rudimentary!) of regular expressions to get the best out of it.

I seriously underuse JRiver, given that I don't go anywhere near its video capabilities. I once used it extensively for playback. It does have a pretty steep learning curve, but I primarily use it for tagging and database organisation

Whilst I like JRiver for ripping and as a database it is playing back music via JRemote, on a tablet or phone, that is its crowning glory.

I could use it again for playback, but Roon has that covered for me.

 

[camverton]

I seriously underuse JRiver, given that I don't go anywhere near its video capabilities. I once used it extensively for playback. It does have a pretty steep learning curve, but I primarily use it for tagging and database organisation

I could use it again for playback, but Roon has that covered for me.

I don’t use the video side of it at all although I looked at it briefly for photographs. I found it very limited for that, both for managing and viewing, particularly when compared with XNview. I think the audio side, however, is excellent and I use it for ripping, management including tagging, and playback. The one downside is that they stubbornly refuse to include the likes of Qobuz or Tidal in the software - maybe with good reason. As the vast majority of my listening is to my own ripped files with Tidal just for trying out recordings that isn’t a problem for me but I can well imagine it will become an increasing limitation for many.

I’ve trialed Roon a few times but it didn’t suit me for the way I wanted to browse classical music. The key point of JRiver is its adaptability in that one can set it up for browsing just how one wishes - once one has climbed a fair way up its learning curve!

 

[Peter Stockwell]

I’ve trialed Roon a few times but it didn’t suit me for the way I wanted to browse classical music.

Yes, that's a problem I continue to struggle with, but I don't listen often to Classical.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

I just save rips as flac files. Named and arranged via also using directories to give 'classes' of various aspects of the material. If I wanted to dual-name it I'd use a link, (Linux filing system method to make a file 'appear in more than one place, etc'.) But I've never bothered as seaching is also easy on Linux.

 

[fred sonnen]

I handle my audio files as follows:
JRMC just for playing (HD)FLAC and DSD files. JRMC uses a database to organize the files. In order to avoid the need to constantly add, move and remove files in this DB, JRMC only sees new files when they are ready.
For ripping I used EAC(opy) and the CUETools. For tagging I only used MP3Tag. What do I like about these tools? They are great in the way Linux tools have become great. They are specialists, but they are very powerful.