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T-Amps

Hah ! There you've gone and complicated things again :) I've used the supplied PSU and a Maplins PSU both via a Power Inspired AG500 mains regenerator and I keep going back to the 12V car battery simply because it sounds better to my ears . If the monoblock PSU matches the battery then I'll go for one.
 
Do PCs really deliver >50 A? How? The wires coming out are spawny, you aren't passing any sustained 50A down that without a fire.

Premium PC power supplies are 750-850W, and the highest voltage they do is 12V, so that gives at least 60A, but it is split up over a bunch of wires
(on an ATX connector, there are 3 separate 3.3V wires, 6 5V ones, separate +12V and -12V ones, and 7 ground wires).
 
In general the wattage of a PC power supply is a sum of the individual voltage supplies measured independently not all together, so the total quoted wattage is a bit of a red herring as it will never deliver full rated output. Also these power supplies become less efficient with increasing power draw, anything above approx 60% will see a sharp drop in the supply efficiency.
 
Hah ! There you've gone and complicated things again :) I've used the supplied PSU and a Maplins PSU both via a Power Inspired AG500 mains regenerator and I keep going back to the 12V car battery simply because it sounds better to my ears . If the monoblock PSU matches the battery then I'll go for one.
Let me explain and confuse a little more! SLAs are clearly better than the linear ps I was using but if they had a downside in my setup it was that it exposed a lean upper-mid that many T-amps are known for, this is why some partner them with a valve preamp. I've found that the monoblock ps provides the scale, focus and most of the detail of the SLAs but without the lean upper-mid. Yes it sounds a little less detailed as a result but overall I may end up preferring it. If you don't hear this leanness then probably SLA will be best for your setup. Rather than this ps being better than SLA it might be safer to say it's different and comparable.
 
Hah ! There you've gone and complicated things again :) I've used the supplied PSU and a Maplins PSU both via a Power Inspired AG500 mains regenerator and I keep going back to the 12V car battery simply because it sounds better to my ears . If the monoblock PSU matches the battery then I'll go for one.
Brian, I said I reserved the right to change my mind.....listening to more varied material, I now feel the SMPS more is relaxed, batteries more open, up-front and demanding with more resolution at all frequencies. On poorer recordings the SMPS can be better because it smooths over the lumps and bumps. I still find it better than my linear supply. Batteries offer high fidelity. I'd expect the smps to create a tizzy sound but it's actually the opposite of this.
 
Agreed, the technology will go to those currents, but what I'm getting at is the size of the circuitry required to deliver 50A. A sustained 50A, too. IIRC 2.5mm T&E is safe to 30A, so you'd need double that. To run a T amp too. I agree a linear PSU will be huge also, though.

Do PCs really deliver >50 A? How? The wires coming out are spawny, you aren't passing any sustained 50A down that without a fire.

On the extreme-higher end of gaming/HSC computers, which may have a 1.2KW PSU or even more, the power is delivered through lots of PCI-E connectors, typically 2x8pin per GPU card using 3 wires of the 8 pin connector for ground and 3 for +12v with the other 2 pins also carrying power but acting as a kind of safety with sensing mechanisms built in, as well as through the motherboard, though you want as little as possible coming via the motherboard. Some people do indeed try to split a single wire 6 or 8 pin and plug all connectors into it because some PSUs are actually fake or plain awful quality and don't have enough connections for the rated wattage...which ends in dead computers.

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1200...platinum-92-eff-eps-12v-1-x-140mm-fan-atx-psu

provides 100 amps @ 12v (on a single rail) all day long with very high efficiency.

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beefy!
 
provides 100 amps @ 12v (on a single rail) all day long with very high efficiency.

I would love to see a regulated linear supply do that - apart from the fact that you would need a shed to house it, it would heat up a greenhouse...
 
Brian, I said I reserved the right to change my mind.....listening to more varied material, I now feel the SMPS more is relaxed, batteries more open, up-front and demanding with more resolution at all frequencies. On poorer recordings the SMPS can be better because it smooths over the lumps and bumps. I still find it better than my linear supply. Batteries offer high fidelity. I'd expect the smps to create a tizzy sound but it's actually the opposite of this.

Thanks Clive , that's interesting . I'll make a point of borrowing the monoblock PSU and see if my findings mirror yours .
 
I've finally got round to trying the little Topping TP20 MkII into my Klipsch La Scalas and subs. It's currently playing Schoenberg's Verklärte Nacht from this Boulez box. It really is excellent! I've no idea how it compares to the usual Quad 303, and I've got it hooked up slightly differently anyway (CD player connected directly rather than via the Audio Synthesis passive pre I use with the 303), but it certainly works, and works really well. I played a bit of Ulrich Schnauss' A Strangely Isolated Place previously, a CD that has bass output that could be used for fracking, and it held it together very nicely. I'll need to go back to the Quad to get more of a picture, but I'm certainly not feeling this is any downgrade at all. It's a seriously nice amp in this context.

On a practical level it's no noisier than the Quad. Standing in front of the La Scalas I can hear a very slight electronic whine, I guess about 2khz or so, I assume that's the switch-mode PSU. It's no louder than the Quad's slight hum and hiss (remember these speakers have a sensitivity of 104db / watt so are crazy efficient and will find any noise present upstream). Certainly nothing audible at a listening distance, though not as quiet as the Quad 306 I use in the other system. The volume knob is a bit hot, the usable range with CD is about two hours (off to far louder than I'd ever want), but it's still easy to adjust accurately.
 
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...Ok, stuck the Quad back and the differences are clear and interesting. The Topping has a rather warm and fat character that is very friendly, engaging, and really suits the Klipsch, though the closer one looks at it the more one begins to notice there's a slight lack of precision here and there and a hint of compression too - in comparison to the Quad the Topping sounds just a little blurred and out of focus, but in a really nice and attractive way. I could very happily live with it, but given the choice the Quad is the better amp. It's an interesting comparison as the traits I assign to the Topping are those one would assign to the 303 when compared to a more modern amp - the 303 can itself be viewed as being on the rather warm, rolled-off and soft sounding side of neutral (which is why I like it with Klipsch), I guess one could view the TP20 as going a stop or two further in the same direction.

I have a feeling that, if done properly, this A B dem would have split a room down the middle with many listeners preferring each amp, which for an item that costs £50 quid brand new is a hell of an achievement. I'll happily argue that a T-Amp and a pair of large and very efficient speakers is a perfectly viable way to spend a system budget! It really is that good!
 
...Ok, stuck the Quad back and the differences are clear and interesting. The Topping has a rather warm and fat character that is very friendly, engaging, and really suits the Klipsch, though the closer one looks at it the more one begins to notice there's a slight lack of precision here and there and a hint of compression too - in comparison to the Quad the Topping sounds just a little blurred and out of focus, but in a really nice and attractive way. I could very happily live with it, but given the choice the Quad is the better amp. It's an interesting comparison as the traits I assign to the Topping are those one would assign to the 303 when compared to a more modern amp - the 303 can itself be viewed as being on the rather warm, rolled-off and soft sounding side of neutral (which is why I like it with Klipsch), I guess one could view the TP20 as going a stop or two further in the same direction.

I have a feeling that, if done properly, this A B dem would have split a room down the middle with many listeners preferring each amp, which for an item that costs £50 quid brand new is a hell of an achievement. I'll happily argue that a T-Amp and a pair of large and very efficient speakers is a perfectly viable way to spend a system budget! It really is that good!

Interesting, I've just bought a Temple Audio Bantam Gold and have been comparing that to my 303. The Bantam seems to give a fuller sound that has a richer bass than the Quad. I gave it several days to burn in before listening seriously - the sound changed quite a bit over that time, a bit thin to begin with. Just swapped the 303 back in and on balance I prefer it, though the Bantam is by no means a bad amp especially when you consider its size and price.
 
Interesting, I've just bought a Temple Audio Bantam Gold and have been comparing that to my 303. The Bantam seems to give a fuller sound that has a richer bass than the Quad. I gave it several days to burn in before listening seriously - the sound changed quite a bit over that time, a bit thin to begin with. Just swapped the 303 back in and on balance I prefer it, though the Bantam is by no means a bad amp especially when you consider its size and price.

What speakers are you running? Your description sounds very similar to mine. The Topping has a richness and fullness in the upper bass that suits the La Scalas (and Heresys) well, it fills them out just where they need it. I like the balance a lot, though I'm very attached to my 303 and Im certain it lets more information through and is just more in control. I do like that warmer balance though, food for thought. Maybe I need to try another tube preamp sometime...
 
What speakers are you running? Your description sounds very similar to mine. The Topping has a richness and fullness in the upper bass that suits the La Scalas (and Heresys) well, it fills them out just where they need it. I like the balance a lot, though I'm very attached to my 303 and Im certain it lets more information through and is just more in control. I do like that warmer balance though, food for thought. Maybe I need to try another tube preamp sometime...

I have a small listening room and I'm running a pair of John Blue jb3s. Source is a laptop running J River or Pioneer PD S705 into a Matrix Mini DAC which acts as a digital preamp straight into the 303. I was using a Quad 34 but the sound is just so much more vibrant straight into the 303.
 
Just googled them! I imagine a 303 would be a good match with a little full-range driver speaker like that. Bet it would be decent with Lowthers too.
 
I decided to investigate the whole T-amp phenomenon a year ago. I was sceptical because much of the praise appeared to be from listeners with modest systems. But as I read more and more feedback on serious hi-fi forums and from SET users, I decided to try one. Like Tony I quickly concluded the TA2020 was the key and opted for a cheap TA2020 Muse. I believe the TA2020 and TA2024 chips are the same except that one is surface mounted.

There’s enough written about TA2020 amps to suggest that qualifications are not necessary. I suspect divided opinion (amazing vs simply good value – few people actually think they’re bad) is down to speaker load. There seems to be an inherent bias against low powered amps (not just SETs), especially in the hi-fi press. Just because a low-powered amp cannot drive ‘real world’ loads it is not taken seriously. But when high sensitive (horn) speakers expose the limitations of high-powered amps, it is the speakers or system synergy at fault rather than the amps.

For me the Muse was a revelation, a game changer. My current amps include Croft, Audio Innovations, a rebuilt Leak Stereo 50 and original MF A1. Previous amps which I wish I had kept include the Pass Aleph 0, Audio Note (Kit One, Meishu, Oto), Audion Silver Night, Unison (Simply 2 and 4) and Jeff Rowland Concentra. The Muse loses out a touch in dimensionality/body and doesn’t breathe as easily as a good valve amp. But this may be a function of its low power and my 90dB/W 6ohm speakers in a large open-plan living space. In every other area, I think it is better than any valve or solid state amp I have had in my system. I no longer think about amplifier upgrades. If anything, I have been keen to hear other TA2020 and TA2024 amps.

Which brings me to the Trends 10.1 I recently picked up. This is a significant step up in price and componentry but uses a TA2024 chip. I was curious and to be honest a little sceptical if it could better the Muse. It didn’t. It is noticeably warmer in the midrange which I think is similar to what several of the posts here have described about other T-amps. But a listen to Radio 3 announcers suggests that this is a fake warmth at the cost of detail and spatial resolution. Some people will like this, I don’t.

Aside from the Rowland perhaps, every other amp I have liked had a clarity and immediacy reminiscent of live music. This is why I have a soft spot for good SETs and vinyl. Compared to the Muse, the Trends was flat and uninteresting, especially at lower volumes. Not so the Muse. Low level resolution and resolution at low volume reminds me of SETs and why the first watt is what matters. I heard the Muse under less than ideal conditions on the La Scalas and even then they were not far off from some very expensive (and very good) Korean amps.

One caveat though. Without an AC regenerator, the Muse loses much of its magic – still very good but not amazing. I suspect this may have to do with the limitations of Class D power supplies, which ties in with the discussion on batteries. My suggestion would be to look at a regenerator which provides a steady 230V and 50Hz.
 
I have recently acquired a PS Audio P300, my favorite model amongst the bunch. It hadn't occurred to me to try it with my little Muse. So then, that is one of the reasons that I appreciate this forum so much, and especially since the ideas given here are mostly from across the pond. It can get pretty same ol' same ol' reading just on this side.
 
Which brings me to the Trends 10.1 I recently picked up. This is a significant step up in price and componentry but uses a TA2024 chip. I was curious and to be honest a little sceptical if it could better the Muse. It didn’t. It is noticeably warmer in the midrange which I think is similar to what several of the posts here have described about other T-amps. But a listen to Radio 3 announcers suggests that this is a fake warmth at the cost of detail and spatial resolution. Some people will like this, I don’t.

OK, humble pie. I've been puzzling over why the Trends sounded as bad as it did and finally decided to get out the multimeter and measure the DC bias. Sure enough, this was down on the specified 200mV and significantly so on one channel. I adjusted this and also bypassed the volume control, running it as a power amp. The amp is now open, detailed, articulate and sweet. If anything, I think this confirms my initial impressions that the TA2020/TA2024 chip has rewritten the rules. I was planning to move this unit on but not anymore! Apologies to Trends for the hasty and misleading comments.
 
OK, humble pie. I've been puzzling over why the Trends sounded as bad as it did and finally decided to get out the multimeter and measure the DC bias. Sure enough, this was down on the specified 200mV and significantly so on one channel. I adjusted this and also bypassed the volume control, running it as a power amp. The amp is now open, detailed, articulate and sweet. If anything, I think this confirms my initial impressions that the TA2020/TA2024 chip has rewritten the rules. I was planning to move this unit on but not anymore! Apologies to Trends for the hasty and misleading comments.

I found the Trends to be truly exceptional given the price. I modified it with air cores and one or two other tweaks and it was stunning. I wish I had never sold it on really.
 
Tony

Just to throw the proverbial spanner into the works...

How do you think the T-amp would sound driving a pair of early Kan 1's?

Thinking maybe TV and Background music duty...
 


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