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System upgrade needed - thoughts welcome!

K

kensalriser

pfm Member
My main system is getting a little long in the tooth - not in itself the problem, as my dad's old Quad FM3/33/303 into Celestion Ditton 25s still sounds the business! No, I'm just feeling I want more clarity, more depth and definitely more low end and I'd like it without having to push the volume. I'll be buying second hand and will consider options back to mid 90s.

System is:
Roksan Xerxes/XPII/Rega RB300
Arcam Alpha 5
Naim 102/180
Royd Apex

Professionally I've listened to electronic dance music which is usually simple in its demands, but now I'd like a set up that can deliver all sorts of music enjoyably: jazz, rock (not so much heavy/hard/metal), funk, disco, classical.

The speakers look like the place to start. What's going to deliver deeper bass and higher quality? I have a a pair of Epos M16, but these are a bit bright and not a big enough step up. A5 is next in line - this is currently in need of repair but when done will probably be transferred to a junior system. The turntable still sounds great so I'm not planning any changes there except possibly a service. The room is carpeted and a little over 4m square plus a large bay, where the speakers are located in front of ceiling to floor curtains.
 
The turntable set up is, as you say, top quality provided it's serviced and in good nick. You don't say which cartridge you have. I used to own a Naim 102/180 and while they're ok, moving to an 82 preamp and 250 power amp made a big difference. That won't come cheap, though, especially as you'll need a hi-cap as well. I've never heard Apexes so can't comment there. From memory Royd speakers have a reputation for being a bit dry and lean sounding, so might not be the best for bass. Have you heard Naim SBLs? They divide opinion but fans love their pace and timing, plus good bass for their size. I had a pair for years until I got rid of my Naim amps. Post 1995 models are best as they have upgraded drivers.
 
Cartridge is a Goldring Eroica LX. SBLs are a good shout, I think, I'll put those on the list. I remember being awed by them in their heyday. I'm sure they'll be fine with the 102/180 - as much as I'd like an 82/250 set up it probably wouldn't be the best deployment of resources considering I need a CD player and probably in due course something to play digital files.
 
Sell your amps and speakers and go active. You’d need a mortgage to buy a passive set up as good as say the Kii 3s. Many say the Dutch & Dutch are even better.
 
Apex/ela have a fruity but slow bottom end that requires careful siting/treatment to manage.

I’d be looking to a change to a tighter more rhythmically capable speaker.
 
kensalriser said:
Cartridge is a Goldring Eroica LX. SBLs are a good shout, I think, I'll put those on the list. I remember being awed by them in their heyday. I'm sure they'll be fine with the 102/180 - as much as I'd like an 82/250 set up it probably wouldn't be the best deployment of resources considering I need a CD player and probably in due course something to play digital files.
Click to expand...

Why do you NEED a CD player? If you're looking to play digital files, by which I assume you mean streaming, save your money by not buying the CD player and focus your funds on some kind of streamer.

Regards

Richard
 
kensalriser said:
My main system is getting a little long in the tooth - not in itself the problem, as my dad's old Quad FM3/33/303 into Celestion Ditton 25s still sounds the business! No, I'm just feeling I want more clarity, more depth and definitely more low end and I'd like it without having to push the volume. I'll be buying second hand and will consider options back to mid 90s.

System is:
Roksan Xerxes/XPII/Rega RB300
Arcam Alpha 5
Naim 102/180
Royd Apex

Professionally I've listened to electronic dance music which is usually simple in its demands, but now I'd like a set up that can deliver all sorts of music enjoyably: jazz, rock (not so much heavy/hard/metal), funk, disco, classical.

The speakers look like the place to start. What's going to deliver deeper bass and higher quality? I have a a pair of Epos M16, but these are a bit bright and not a big enough step up. A5 is next in line - this is currently in need of repair but when done will probably be transferred to a junior system. The turntable still sounds great so I'm not planning any changes there except possibly a service. The room is carpeted and a little over 4m square plus a large bay, where the speakers are located in front of ceiling to floor curtains.
Click to expand...
I think you’re right to look at the speakers. I’ve owned a pair of Apex for a long time, and I still like them, but for their size, deep bass is not their strong point.
As mentioned, an 82/250 would be a great improvement, with better, more controlled and deeper bass.
As your room is square, do you have a problem with bass nodes? In a similar sized room, I used to find the bass very weak in the listening area, and reinforced if I stood in the doorway or corners. It’s not always easy to deal with this, but certainly worth trying to optimise things.
 
Richard Lines said:
Why do you NEED a CD player? If you're looking to play digital files, by which I assume you mean streaming, save your money by not buying the CD player and focus your funds on some kind of streamer.

Regards

Richard
Click to expand...

Good question. I have a lot of CDs and probably don't want to spend half the rest of my life ripping them. I haven't done any research on streaming yet, so open to suggestions.
 
Whatsisnaim said:
I think you’re right to look at the speakers. I’ve owned a pair of Apex for a long time, and I still like them, but for their size, deep bass is not their strong point.
As mentioned, an 82/250 would be a great improvement, with better, more controlled and deeper bass.
As your room is square, do you have a problem with bass nodes? In a similar sized room, I used to find the bass very weak in the listening area, and reinforced if I stood in the doorway or corners. It’s not always easy to deal with this, but certainly worth trying to optimise things.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but I think ultimately the limitations are with the speakers. Swapping the 102/180 for an 82/250 would probably cost the best part of a grand, which would be a decent budget for s/h speakers.
 
kensalriser said:
Good question, haven't thought too much about that, I always think it's good to look at what's what first. But a decent pair of SBLs at 400ish would be comfortably within range.
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I am not entirely clear on what speakers in a bay window really means, however it is worth noting, seeing as SBLs are being discussed, that they need their backs against a solid wall to perform.
 
nobeone said:
I am not entirely clear on what speakers in a bay window really means, however it is worth noting, seeing as SBLs are being discussed, that they need their backs against a solid wall to perform.
Click to expand...
Typical 30s semi with angled bay windows - 6 casements above a 70cm high solid brick wall.
 
kensalriser said:
System is:
Roksan Xerxes/XPII/Rega RB300
Arcam Alpha 5
Naim 102/180
Royd Apex

..

The speakers look like the place to start. ..
Click to expand...

I recall Apex is transmission-line and very similar to Rega Ela, driver-units and cabinet.

As such they are excellent on basnotes but might need a little warmth.
Its allways better with less bass than too much bass, easier to add than remove.
Perhaps too dry mids, the more recent Rega RX is better in that aspect.

Sure you can get more details etc with something like Neat or Kudos loudspeakers.

Add a Hicap and Napsc is another option.
Try a BK sub, set for the very lows.
Do get the TT serviced
A Rega CD-player might help for a fuller sound.
I wouldn't bother with anything streaming.
 
kensalriser said:
Typical 30s semi with angled bay windows - 6 casements above a 70cm high solid brick wall.
Click to expand...
Yup, so i haven't tried it but i don't see SBLs working well in the bay window. Against a solid brick wall, right up against it, facing flat out into the room is what they do, but that would require a different layout i think.
 
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