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System pics 2019

Discussion in 'audio' started by mikeyb, Jan 1, 2019.

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  1. beammeup

    beammeup pfm Member

    Just invested in a new equipment rack - it's as important as the equipment itself! My Hi-Fi sounds less congested and more expressive than ever before ...


    Ugly Tuco, Fretbuzz, Ponty and 9 others like this.
  2. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog

    Wait until you hear the effect of proper isolation! :)
  3. beammeup

    beammeup pfm Member

    I'm not sure I can do anything more significant than using this rack, have you got any ideas for further tweaking? It certainly makes a big improvement, and I've only just started using it with the kit you can see in the picture.

    My investment in this rack was as a result me hearing how much a support platform can make when chopping and changing recently. I would never have chucked cash in this direction otherwise (normally it would be on the electronics itself).
  4. Old Shatterhand

    Old Shatterhand pfm Member

    Move the rack from between the speakers to a sidewall if you haven't already.
    Between the speakers is the worst position for a rack.
    I'd move mine too, but unfortunately that isn't possible here.
  5. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog

    Moving to a side wall could however result in an audible imbalance in first reflections if positioned midway between speaker and listening seat. If side walls are far enough away from speakers then this won't matter so much, if not then moving the rack along the side wall, either closer to speaker or closer to listening seat would be preferable IMO.

    FWIW I have my rack between my speakers as I enjoy looking at my gear without getting a crick in my neck! :)

    Also @beammeup's new rack is open-shelved, which I'd expect to be less harmful to imaging when placed between his speakers than one that has solid sides.

    WRT isolation, all my hifi boxes are on sorbothane hemispheres of the appropriate durometer for the weight of each component. However, having witnessed the extent of improvement after installing 'proper' isolating pucks beneath my speakers I'm tempted to try pucks under my components too. The improvement in my speakers' imaging and soundstaging was pretty jaw-dropping, and I say that as someone who was previously very sceptical about this area of tweakery!
  6. beammeup

    beammeup pfm Member

    ... interesting - but the reason I went for the whole rack, is that the whole thing is designed for resonance control so that I should have less need to put the components themselves on any further isolating feet or whatever, when the rack shelf itself is designed to do this without additional pucks / cones / etc.

    Having said that - I still feel the need to use large sorbothane feet under the DAC.

    What equipment rack are you using? Many use standard furniture where I suspect the need for isolation cones etc are needed far more. I also suspect that more expensive equipment put a lot of engineering in resonance control in and around the electronics thus negating the need to worry about the support as much - I can cheat - I can buy cheap equipment and let the rack provide the control amounting to the same thing :).

    I'm not blessed with a dedicated listening room so I also have to leave the kit in the position shown. Not best placed I know with speakers generally firing directly overhead. This is why support / resonance control makes such a significant difference in my setup I suspect. I continue listening as I type and the performance is so much better!

    Fretbuzz likes this.
  7. Old Shatterhand

    Old Shatterhand pfm Member

    @ToTo Man It isn't about imaging it is about sound pressure maximum between the speakers and therefore vibration. Speakers behind the speakers is even worse, but as long as you are happy with your setup.

    Don't take it personal because I don't write this addressed to you.

    To me it is very funny to watch people tweaking their systems with cables and isolation platforms and so on but they don't get the fundamentals right.

    Speaker position, acoustic room treatment (I don't call flowers, furniture and curtains room treatment), listening position.

    It is like to buy a VW Golf 2.0 put on 2.000€ alloy rims, a big muffler and rally stripes and then tell everybody how big the difference in performance is and how well you can drive it since the tuning.

    I prefer a 3.0 Mercedes E class with steel rims instead of the VW Golf 2.0.
    ToTo Man likes this.
  8. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog

    RE sound pressure, would maximum pressure not be found in the corners of the room and against the rear wall? That's where my room modes are at maximum SPL according to my REW measurements.

    RE the speakers behind speakers thing, yes I freely admit this is far from ideal and will cause many folk to cringe, but needs must when storage space is limited! :D In your opinion, in what ways is this detrimental to the sound from a sound pressure perspective?

    I actually find that the more unused speakers I have in my room, the more controlled/damped the room sounds. Funny story: a few years ago I had two pairs of big unused IMF speakers in the room. When I removed these, my room became a boomy, resonant mess, which I then needed to rectify by spending the best part of a grand installing floor-to-ceiling corner bass traps and side wall first reflection panels...
  9. beammeup

    beammeup pfm Member

    I agree - but within the confines and restrictions of my room leaving speakers as is and without room treatment the rack - being perhaps one big tweak for everything resting on it at the same time - makes a considerable difference in very positive way.

    You could also say that having a great listening position with very good room treatment but leaving equipment on a a support that doesn't effectively deal with resonance means that you are still not hearing your Hi-Fi at its best (albeit perhaps better than in my scenario).
  10. ArtK

    ArtK Wine & Music

    Well done!
  11. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog

    Custom-made to my exact size specification when I was 19 and clueless about the effects of vibrational control. I had it built in India from hardwood I liked the look of (IIRC it was called 'Sheesham' or 'Jali' or something similar) and imported it by slow-boat for the total princely sum of £140 (that was in 2005). I've got two more in another room, along with a 10-foot long matching sideboard holding all my spare kit! :)

    These are old photos from 2008:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Each year I have good intentions to replace it with a HiFi Racks Podium to provide more appropriate shelf height for each of my components but I baulk at the price. It would cost me almost 10x what I paid for my existing rack, which is a lot to pay just to have the shelves at slightly different heights to what I've currently got. I also doubt it would be as sturdy as my existing rack which is so rock stable you could fall against it and not worry about toppling the plasma telly!
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
    TheDecameron likes this.
  12. Old Shatterhand

    Old Shatterhand pfm Member

    Once again for safety: I neither meant you @beammeup nor @ToTo Man !
    I'm in another German hifi forum, setups for XX.000€ but position totally crap, room empty and no treatment, but expansive cables (even LAN cables!), and hifi Voodoo all over the place.

    But my example wasn't the best, I should have said: The buy a Bentley but fit 165mm all season tires on it which are 15 years old and with too hard or to soft setup for the suspension system and the wrong motor setting. And tell everybody how great their car is and that they can drive like Lewis Hamilton.:rolleyes:
    ToTo Man likes this.
  13. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog

    No worries, I understood you weren't directly referring to me. :) Nevertheless I am still keen to learn about the vibration problems caused by placing the hifi rack between the speakers, and also the consequences of having unused speakers behind the main speakers?
  14. beammeup

    beammeup pfm Member

    No problem! I used to think platforms that helped control resonances were Voodoo - until now (it's actually a major contributor)! I feel I have wasted years by not having the correct support infrastructure / foundation for my equipment. I mustn't get hung up over it though.
  15. Old Shatterhand

    Old Shatterhand pfm Member

    I'm searching for more then an hour now but I don't find that article I have read. Sorry. If I find it I will send it to you.
  16. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Ooh, those stand mounts- what are they and are they good?
  17. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog

    At risk of stealing @beammeup's thunder, they're IMF Super Compacts and yes, they're very good. I owned a pair with veneered baffles a few years ago and regret selling them. The only flaw my ears perceived was a slightly recessed lower midrange but they were otherwise excellent, very detailed and open.
  18. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Ah, is that foam at the bottom the end of a transmission line?
  19. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog

  20. mega lord

    mega lord Centre tapped

    Nice pre amp :)
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