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Sugden Connoisseur - lost classic?

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Have Fun

There are a few bits I have in mind to post, and here may be the point at which to do it. You may find something of use re: alignment, but I am not sufficiently familiar with other arms and alighment protractors to make any recommendations other than below.

Cannonball Adderley- "Know What I Mean" RIVERSIDE LP (reissue - Fantasy OJC-105)

If I may add to comments I made elsewhere about this LP, if it is played on a good system, with a good turntable, the piano notes should sound very natural and pure with no audible wavering or degradation on long notes. This LP was very well recorded. On my (modified) Connesseur BD1 the reproduction of piano and other instruments on this LP is superb.

Other LP recordings of piano demonstrate what can sound like wow and flutter and other aberrations. This is due to causes other than the turntable (see below).

This LP- Track 1, Side 1- (Waltz For Debbie) is my primary system Test Record. If you hear ANY deviation from a pure natural piano note on this track suspect your turntable first, after that other causes.

A few years back I could not get this track to sound right, although it had done previously. I had started using the excellent Geo- Disc (made by Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab) to align my cartridge. Unfortunately this disc depends on visual alignment with OFFSET & PIVOT. With my arm (Audio Kuzma Stogi) this is problematic. I switched back to the primitive mirror alignment gauge provided with my cartridge (van den Hul MC1). After realigning the cartridge, the piano sounded pure and natural and right once again.

If the TT and Cart alignment are eliminated as cause of any problem I would next look for distortion- most likely caused by the preamp and/or amp.

If you eliminate everything else (off centre record hole, damaged grooves, old belt - what have you?) and the piano on 'Waltz For Debbie' still sounds distorted the reason may be that the power supply to your turntable motor is just not good enough to do the job properly.

The (modified) Connesseur BD1 fitted with the supply detailed in my AC article is, I think, certainly good enough- and I have never been tempted to try a DC motor or to make further improvements to this supply.

As an addendum I can say that, although I bought in a supply of new BD1 motors before I wrote the article- in the expectation that a motor would only last 10 years or so given my usage- I am still on the same replacement motor. I think I overdid the oiling. I would suggest that the BD1 or BD2 should never be oiled unless it starts to make an untoward noise, and then only by putting two drops of Singer Sewing machine oil onto the felt pad under the pulley- not more than 2 drops initially.

Eguth
 
I have always been a little dubious about people's claims on tweaks & changing mats is one of them .. especially when the cost of things like mats can be so prohibitively expensive.

Based on Eguth's article (posted earlier on this thread) I did an experiment yesterday on the BD1
I replaced the BD1 mat with a 100mm diam disc of 3mm cork so that the record stood clear of the platter .. that's it.
The result was immediate improvement, more open, improved soundstage & greater clarity .. & I heard extra intonations on the recording .. truly a jawdropping experience.

I have yet to try a full size cork mat to see how that compares
& if I stick to the 100 diam disc (size of Label) I think I may get even more improvement with a clamp or weight (Recommendations for BD1 clamping welcome here)

The 3mm cork disc was easily cut with a pair of scissors & just given a light sanding to tidy up. Thickness is within a fraction of a millimeter of the original rubber mat.

The tweak does not improve the look of the platter though (when the record is taken off).. so if for nothing else I will be covering the platter with some thin material to maintain the gap .. maybe just with some coloured paper or a thin rubber material I can get hold of.
 
New design- just out- Thorens 2030 measured wow & flutter 0.21% (Noel Keywood 2007). Connesseur BD1 measured wow & flutter less than 0.1% (Frank Jones 1970).

Eguth
 
I have seen it mentioned that this TT was of broadcast standard & used by Radio stations .. but does anyone know which Radio stations used the Connoisseur?
 
The BD1 test by Frank Jones stated that this model tested out as better than the minimum broadcast standard- but he did not mention which stations used this turntable. That test report should not be confused with any other test carried out on the BD2.

Rumble from the BD1 tested was found by Jones to be virtually ‘nil’- so there was little or no room for improvement in that parameter.


Eguth
 
Hi there,
this is my first post here but I stumbled accross this thread while trying to find information about a strange tonearm I have, made by Sugden- the SAU4. It was originally fitted to a BD3 deck but I threw that away as I didn't like it! It had horrid plastiky bits but was obviously an attempt at being quite high end with a plaster filled platter and offboard power supply. I have had it a while but have only just started playing with it. Here are some pics:

DSCN7281 small.jpg

DSCN7278 small.jpg

DSCN7280 small.jpg

DSCN7279 small.jpg


As you can see, it's a strange beast! Has anyone seen one of these or used one?
It has a unipivot for the horizontal bearing that is stabilised by magnets, and knife edges for the vertical bearing. It has magnetic anti-skate via the large knob on top. The arm is very short- about 8.5".
It's a peculiar thing being quite over engineered in the massive housing, but rather plastiky and crude where it counts- the pivot assembly.
Also the knife edges are above the hoizontal point bearing so you can push the arm back and forth against the magnetic stabilisation which doesn't seem a very good idea to me. The arm tube and weight stub are mounted in a plastic ring with the knife edges moulded in.
I was thinking of having a go at it- replacing the plastic ring with brass and steel knife edges and trying to align the h and v bearings which would make it stiffer. I'd also use a longer arm tube- maybe canibalise another arm for a tube.
So what do you think of this exotic arm?

Mark
 
Well I've never seen that anywhere before
The headshell is the same as the one on my deck (a replacement) but that's it
Very intriguing & it is a pity you dumped the rest
you should put it on Vinyl Engine for the record & also maybe someone knows

Also try Technical & General for advice & info
personally I wouldn't touch anything until I had more info on it

Performance & Sound quality?
 
Well the Decca tracks fine in it, but its too early just yet to really evaluate it. I only set it up last Saturday and can only really listen to it at weekends. Also the deck is a bit of an experiment so I don't really know its shortcomings yet. I had a Mission 774 on there before and the brief listening so far reveal the mission to be better- more open and detailed. But I noticed some new details with the Sugden at times but less at others. The bass is a bit weak. The alignment isn't right as the mount was designed with the 774 in mind and this arm's shorter. I had to twist the decca in the headshell to get anything like correct alignment. Interesting that this arm and the 774 had no problem with the Decca- the 774 is 5g mass I think and with no damping- no problem.
I have a feeling for this arm- I like its principles, but I see a few problems. That's why I'm tempted to experiment with it. I realise it's probably quite rare- no info on the net anyway, but I don't feel too precious about it- the quality of construction of the original deck was pretty nasty as are parts of this arm.
I'll try the Vinyl Engine, but I never heard of Technical and General- do you have an address?

Mark
 
Technical & General 01892 654534
PO Box 53 Crowborough East Sussex TN6 2BY

Please don't do anything until you have at least spoken to this guy he has all the parts for Connoisseur

PM on its way
 
Have Fun

An excellent contribution to this thread. I have seen other writeups on Arnold Sugden but none to compare with pages 12-14. I don't know how you find all this good material; I obviously would greatly benefit from some lessons from you on how to search effectively!

Best,

Eguth
 
Not sure about which thread so I chose this one.... Looking at this thread

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34568

and in particular the brace to the spindle housing shown in this photo
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...Bottom1972.jpg

Compare this with Eguth's article on the Connoisseur earlier in this thread & It makes me wonder just who should really get credit for this idea ..

http://www.acoustica.org.uk/misc/ARSugden/BD1-7.jpg

according the Eguth the original idea was thought up by a Mr Sims. When was the AR with this feature produced?
 
I have been reading these posts with interest and amusement. I have a Connoisseur BD-1 that I still use today that I originally bought for around £30 (a huge amount in those days) some 40 years ago. In all that time I have only ever bought one repacement drive belt.

I made my own turntable base for it and paired with an Acos Lustre GST1 arm with an ADC magnesium head and an A&R P78 pickup. The base is made from 6 shaped sheets of 8-ply screwed and glued together with cutouts to leave space for the motor and switchgear. The base also has a hole that houses the main bearing and is a very tight fit so as to provide stability. I modified the ADC head to have two pins to ensure a tight fit to the arm.

This is a picture of the base as originally bought:

Connoisseur%20Base.jpg


I have also added a glass turntable top though for the life of me I can't remember who made it. With this on top it looks like this:

Connoisseur%20with%20Glass%20Turntable.jpg


The setup still delivers excellent sound despite its age. Despite the claims above, the motor suspension shows no signs at all of falling apart. Still, good to hear that there is somewhere where a replacement can be obtained if it should ever prove necessary!
 
That looks cool, nice plinth. I'm glad this thread has been bounced as there is an earlier Sugden Connoisseur deck that I had no idea existed until recently:

677icgn.jpg


It's a real heavyweight idler drive deck dating from the same period as the Garrard 301 and IIRC it was actually more expensive. Seriously heavy cast construction throughout (I've seen pics of the underside, it looks like a Russian tank), I bet it's a hell of a deck. The one in the pic is owned by willbewill over on www.Lenco-Lovers.com (the arm is clearly non-original).

Tony.
 
Tip for those who experience problems with alignment of the motor ... I solved the problem with my motor suspension on a BD2 / BD1 .. the motor was leaning & tilted off axis resulting in a background click. I just packed some open cell packing foam underneath the motor so it now sits perfectly straight. The result is a sound so clear & true it is magical.
 
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