Sugden Connoisseur - lost classic?
- Thread starter kasperhauser
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Mescalito
pfm Member
A Garrard SP25 ??? -I mean really ....
BTW Robert was way off the mark - other reports & reviews contradict his statements .. eg One Reviewer on Gramophone used a BD1 to review carts
I'd like to see Roberts technical data published here
eguth
pfm Member
My first reaction(s) are:
1. Someone may in past have used the wrong lubricant or an oil that was too thick. You could try freeing it up, but I would not know how to go about doing this or what to try to use.
2. The motor or some part of it or what is attached to it may be fouling something.
3. It may be on its last legs.
4. It may just have been not used (out of circulation) for too long.
I could be wrong about any (or all) of the above.
Regards,
Eguth
P.S. Do let this thread know how you get on, for the benefit of others.
eguth
pfm Member
These kinds of generalisations are always pretty useless.
"Originally Posted by Robert
Nooooo way my friend.
These were budget decks built down to a price, not up to an acceptable standard. They sold for £70 - less than the Rega decks and were in competition with the likes of the old Sansui SR222 and Dual CS505.
They measured poorly, with high rumble, poor acoustic breakthrough, resonant arms and sloppy main bearings.
I have a full technical review if anyone is interested.
There is a tendency of late to praise averything on the basis of it being from the golden days of vinyl, but there was plenty of poor kit around that really should remain in the dusty old pages of 70s magazines..."
Robert is frequently wrong, in my experience. Almost everyone seems to realise this except Robert.
It would be useful to know what speed the Sugden motor runs at
An alternative motor could be used but the pully diam would need to be calculated & machined accurately & then adjusted to give speed changes 45 & 33 ... & the whole assembly then isolated to prevent vibration
graham-r
pfm Member
It could probably do with a spot of oil I expect, but it seems pretty free running so this is probably not the cause. Fortunately it was only out of use for about a year and kept in a dry environment so corrosion shouldn't be a problem either. It does sometimes make a gentle clicking noise so that needs to be investigated.
My current guess is that the pair of micro-switches that switch live and neutral independently are not properly synchronised with one of the mains wires connected first it <seems> to make the motor do weird things.
It works every time if I switch it on very quickly, the speed change even works properly.....
graham-r
pfm Member
The obvious one to try might be a Rega motor, the RPM is a possible problem though, I thought the speed of synchronous motors was controlled by the relationship between the number of poles and the mains frequency. It might be that the Rega motor (for ex.) has the same number of poles.
graham-r
pfm Member
I had an SP25 Mk IV in 1979 (ish) it wasn't all that old but it rumbled like tube train, probably caused the demise of my Omar bass units. My BD1 is much older than the SP25 was and it doesn't rumble at all, largely due to the belt drive and motor mount. I do not miss my SP25.....
Likewise but a bit earlier for me
The SP25 was my first TT circa 1969/70 .. Transcription it was not but I had a lot of fun from it with a Rogers Ravensbrook amp & Wharfedale kit speakers.
Fitting the BD2 into the system in 1974 was a revelation. Seriously No Comparison.
The BD1 BD2 dates from around 1968 or so until the demise of the company (late 70's?) In 1969 The cost of BD2 was £34.00 complete with lid & arm bringing quality playback at an affordable price & predating the other TT's Robert mentioned ie Sansui 222 1975 / Dual CS 505 1981 / Rega Planet first brought out 1973.
Also the Ariston RD11 Hamish Robertson 1971 followed later by the Linn Sondek LP12 1973
I have no idea of comparative costs of the other decks
The SP25 was my first TT circa 1969/70 .. Transcription it was not but I had a lot of fun from it with a Rogers Ravensbrook amp & Wharfedale kit speakers.
Fitting the BD2 into the system in 1974 was a revelation. Seriously No Comparison.
The BD1 BD2 dates from around 1968 or so until the demise of the company (late 70's?) In 1969 The cost of BD2 was £34.00 complete with lid & arm bringing quality playback at an affordable price & predating the other TT's Robert mentioned ie Sansui 222 1975 / Dual CS 505 1981 / Rega Planet first brought out 1973.
Also the Ariston RD11 Hamish Robertson 1971 followed later by the Linn Sondek LP12 1973
I have no idea of comparative costs of the other decks
In Sweden a LP12 costed something like £130 in 1975, according to ads in the HiFi-mags of that era. Stupid me wasted more than that on a silly cassette player (that can only make a copy of what's fed into it, garbage in - garabage out). I had a french ERA at that time. Avoid.
JohanR
JohanR
Here is a link to a Gramophone review of the Shure 75 dated 1972 using a Connoisseur & SME arm
I would guess it was a BD1 not BD2 as stated in the review (cos the SME would be awkward to fit on a BD2)
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=36173
I would guess it was a BD1 not BD2 as stated in the review (cos the SME would be awkward to fit on a BD2)
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=36173
eguth
pfm Member
FROM MY NOTES (made 20+ years ago):
BD1` motor stopping (suddenly) for no apparent reason or MOTOR WONT START. Bearings have worn. There is no cure. Oil will not reach them. New motor needed.
Apart from this the on/off switch (an enclosed Omron) may have gone intermittant due to dirty contacts, though this is unliikely. It would be worth replacing it (and also the capacitor with a higher value p/p just in case) to avoid any future problem.
Scratchy/click noises could indicate that something is rubbing- problematic suspension?
Connoisseur motors are very high quality. We shouldn't be fooled by the low cost into a dismissive frame of mind.
BD1` motor stopping (suddenly) for no apparent reason or MOTOR WONT START. Bearings have worn. There is no cure. Oil will not reach them. New motor needed.
Apart from this the on/off switch (an enclosed Omron) may have gone intermittant due to dirty contacts, though this is unliikely. It would be worth replacing it (and also the capacitor with a higher value p/p just in case) to avoid any future problem.
Scratchy/click noises could indicate that something is rubbing- problematic suspension?
Connoisseur motors are very high quality. We shouldn't be fooled by the low cost into a dismissive frame of mind.
eguth
pfm Member
"...It works every time if I switch it on very quickly, the speed change even works properly..."
graham-r
This leads me to wonder whether you had not been starting the motor vigorously enough, on the assumption that the rubber bung at the end of the start/stop handle has not worn down.
graham-r
This leads me to wonder whether you had not been starting the motor vigorously enough, on the assumption that the rubber bung at the end of the start/stop handle has not worn down.
My BD2's motor starts instantly and runs silently. Having checked the platter speed with a strobe, it's spot on. I find that even with a slightly duff belt the platter runs very smoothly indeed - certainly the engineering is well up to the job. Simple, works well. Looking forward to trying the glass of water test!
You need a good reflection on the water surface to act as a mirror
I used a strong light ie a halogen spot & a vertical bar behind (not on the plinth) to show off ripples (there weren't any)
The container needs to be thin with a flat bottom. Water needs to be high to the rim, if you are concerned with spillage use a straw to suck up
graham-r
pfm Member
It certainly made a difference to the reliability of the motor start-up if I switched it quickly, but it has started playing up again so I shall have to take the motor apart and inspect it properly. I think the clicking noise may be caused by the little ratchet thing that suppose to stop it starting backwards.
Is it normal to have 2 micro-switches, as far as I remember the BD1 instructions show only one ?
It will all have to wait until the w/e though.
GR
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