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Stacked 57s

robbyd

robbyd

pfm Member
Anyone here with experience?

does stacking improve dynamics?

I know PW said you get +3bd treble, +6db bass, but does that just mean lower volume settings, or will actual dynamics be better?

it's the only aspect of these speakers I find disappointing sometimes...

I'm already using them with two janis w1 subs so bass is not lacking for sure!

absolute spls are more than adequate I should add...

Many thanks
 
The last time I heard stacked Quads was with dual Janis subs and Decca ribbons. This was way back in the early '80s in a system that I used to call the Ken Chan JQD System, after the Mark Levinson HQD System that had been doing the trade shows for years with 24" Hartley subs in refrigerator sized enclosures.

IIANM, the science tells us that stacked full-range ESLs alone should see headroom increased by 3dB across the board, however, room affects combined with the bass to tweeter panels size ratio of ESL57 must factor in to PW's +6dB bass.

I can say that Ken's 'JQD' system far exceeded the sense of scale of the 7'10" in tall Acoustat Two + Two that we had on dem in the shop. I suspect that it would have even outdone Acoustat's two largest electrostatics, namely Models Six and Eight. It is difficult to convey how large these Acoustat models appear within a normal (for over here) sized lounge. although, the Levinson style ESL57 frame stand is rather imposing in a 'War of the Worlds' sort of way (makes two uninvited Daleks seem like obnoxious Hoover canisters by comparison).

It was some years later, on here or the Naim forum, where I first heard the expression 'bass from where the Balrog lives' and this instantly transported me back in my mind to almost spilling a cup of tea in front of JQD when Bowie's 'Putting out Fire' from 'Cat People' came on.
 
Thanks Craig -

I assumed, rightly or wrongly, that the 6db bass gain over 3db treble was because there were two bass panels and only one treble panel.

still wondering though if that set up is more 'dynamic' or not...

regards
Rob
 
Dynamics is just min to max volume, quads do a square wave, there's no more dynamic speakers within their sound pressure envelope and frequency roll off. They just don't go loud, they're still dynamic.
 
Definitely something I’d like to try. I love the looks of stacked Quads!
Sometimes I wish I had ESL speakers that would do high volumes too, like reproducing a piano or even a sax at likelike level.
But that only exists in fantasyland I’m afraid!
For that I have other speakers.
 
sq225917 said:
Dynamics is just min to max volume, quads do a square wave, there's no more dynamic speakers within their sound pressure envelope and frequency roll off. They just don't go loud, they're still dynamic.
Click to expand...
I know that - it just seems that when the music is already loud, they just can't give that little bit more when needed, if that makes sense. My other speakers are rockport aviors, which don't run out of puff... maybe it is to do with treble roll-off...?
 
i have owned ESL57s for the last 30 years. Since moving to a larger house , I have been running a stacked array for around three years. My only regret is that I was unable to make the change some 25 years earlier.

If my experience is typical, you will definitely get improved scale and dynamics. Bass is also extended by up to half an octave according to Peter Walker and the maximum SPL increased to potentially 100 db. There are numerous other more subtle sonic benefits to be gained by 'doubling' up. I got my stacked pair up and running for under £1,100 including adapted steel stands. Absolutely love 'em High-end audio on the cheap !
 
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Quads don’t roll-off treble, not mine anyway. This is one ESL57 at a distance of 3 metres in my listening room:


quad-esl-587ecd7.jpg
 
chartz said:
Definitely something I’d like to try. I love the looks of stacked Quads!
Sometimes I wish I had ESL speakers that would do high volumes too, like reproducing a piano or even a sax at likelike level.
But that only exists in fantasyland I’m afraid!
For that I have other speakers.
Click to expand...
Fantasyland, or, the old ''La Grotto' restaurant in Toronto, containing a custom 14 foot wide curved 'panoramic' electrostatic install by one Mike Wright, later of Dayton-Wright Group.

Mike W. complained on his blog about having "to spend at least an hour and a half each day replacing cells" after one of the restaurant partners decided to run a disco post dining hours. I suspect that this was instrumental in Mike's decision to later enclose his cells within a sealed inert gas filled bag which allowed them to be driven much higher before arching set in.

AA-Last-402.jpg
 
What your probably missing is the edge that distortion gives you and the feeling of dynamics coming from compression and higher max spl.

Mrdog has 989 with dual subs, he's not wanting for dynamics.
 
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Possibly!

That they can do square waves suggests fast transients obviously and they are very fast.

But in cone driver terms, maybe they (the panels) don't have the throw that cones have?

like in F1 you deploy DRS but it's jammed!

I don't lack scale at all with the subs.
 
Hi-Fi News and Record Review 'From the Vault' article, summarizing two prior articles that describe the evolution of the late Alistair Robertson-Aikman's home music room/system.

Safe .pdf read and/or download via Google Docs here...
 
I had ESL57s in the past. A stacked pair was probably my dream setup if I ever had the space. I would still love to hear a good setup in a suitable room.
 
doubling down on them with a stacked pair will help some. But if they're not holding a full charge on tired panels that'll limit excursion and max spl.
 
Come to the Wigwam show at Kegworth in October. There have been stacked Quads the last 3 times I've attended. Brilliant sound.
 
I allways planned on doing this , I currently have 3 pairs of 57's , One pair mint working , One pair worked last time I fired them up and the 3rd pair purchased as not working , Tripple stacked , Mmmm

I know absolutely nothing about these other than how to wire them up , Ny thoughts were as follows

Botton set with all bass pannels , Middle set with mid range panels , Top set with treble panels , And re the amp , I have a pair of original Quad 11 valve amps but do understand these would not be up to the job , So thinking along the lines of a BIG yamaha professional amp

Am I mad , Yes probably , Also will I have a big enough budge for this is also in question , Time will tell
 
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