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Discussion in 'audio' started by Natara, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Natara

    Natara pfm Member

    What can cause sibilance in a system is it the mastering of the music? I get slight sibilance on vocal S's on some records and others not - my set up is LP12/Ittock/Benz Micro Ace SL >> Naim 282/Dual TeddyCap/300 >>Dynaudio X32 and I'm not sure wether it is a cart/TT problem an amp or speaker problem or wether it is just some recordings?
  2. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley "It appears my intelligence circuits have melted"

    What recordings?

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    Yes, it would be best if you could name some specific recordings that you feel suffer as some, close miked, recordings do inherently have sibilance on them.
  4. Hipper

    Hipper pfm Member

    It can be the recordings but also the playback set up.

    I use an equaliser and poor use of that can cause sibilance where it didn't exist before. I would guess that moving your speakers closer or away from walls, and toe in could also have an effect.

    I suppose one possibility of testing if it's in the recording is to listen through headphones, but of course the headphone system could also be implicated.

    Sibilance is often thought to be in the 5-8 kHz frequency range.
  5. Ronaudio

    Ronaudio Ronaudio

    I used to be hyper sibilance conscious about forty years ago, but never seem bothered by it now. I do have a theory as to why not now, but back in the day I believe that incorrect capacitance loading of my moving magnet cartridges (usually ortofons) was the main cause of this excessive brightness, and particularly noticeable on S’s
    Don’t notice it now ‘cos of the measurable deterioration in my high frequency perception, and of course, by loading my cartridges appropriately.
  6. Big Tabs

    Big Tabs looking backwards, going forwards

    Mastering is the culprit on the whole, I reckon.
    Try Adele, first album. Dire sibilance.
  7. Natara

    Natara pfm Member

    Thinking about it, all the remasters I own by Analogue Productions, ORG, Classic and some MOFI don't suffer from sibilance at all but I also agree with Ronaudio that it could be due cartridge problems.
  8. mercalia

    mercalia pfm Member

    helpful to get a cd version of the same recording - can be quite shocking how bad some "good" recordings are, makes me wonder what the producer has for ears. Not just sibilance but also hardness of a vocal delivery eg David Thomas on Monteverdi's Sacred Vocal Music ( first few tracks in particular ) really quite nasty yet the classical recording was put out for sale. If you have some decent headphones that can help to determine if the speakers/amp chain are at fault
  9. Mr Underhill

    Mr Underhill pfm Member

    Hi Nat,

    My first suggestion would be look at your earthing/grounding.

    I think this has become far more of a headache with the introduction of wall-warts and the like.

    In my case I wrestled with this for 10 months. 95% solved by:

    Running a piece of wire from the metalwork on any device which I didn't know had an earth cable to the plug, I ran this cable back to the earthing pin on my pre-amp. In my case this included:

    SingXer-F1; and
    Border Patrol DAC.

    INSTANT relief. A quick test with a few wires should tell you whether this will work for you.

    I should add that I found other changes made a difference, but only temporarily. I believe this was because by touching things I was grounding the system, and then it returned to its former condition.

    Since then i have further improved matters by pursuing the grounding hypothesis with my digital back end.

  10. maccavelli

    maccavelli pfm Member

    fizzing top end is my pet hate with vinyl. have to go up the ladder quite a lot to get rid of it
  11. maccavelli

    maccavelli pfm Member

    a lot of top end carts can have that problem.
  12. manicatel

    manicatel pfm Member

    Christ on a bike, I’d have thought sibilance was the least of our worries.
    jair likes this.
  13. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Quite contrary statements. As in most things, the further up you go, the more refinement you get. Sibilance CAN be inherent in the recording but I'd suggest that it's mostly either in bad set-up or poor synergy in kit. If any of the cart's I've had these past few years had shown a tendency towards sibilance I'd've thrown a fit. The only instance I've come across of late was down to a very worn record whilst trying to track its inner grooves, and that with a 12" arm, too ! Unusual, though.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  14. Big Tabs

    Big Tabs looking backwards, going forwards

    I like her songs, I like her voice, I like her personality. I do wish there was half-speed mastered releases of all her albums, same goes for Kate Bush, especially The Red Shoes, which needs a remaster. (arial and 50 Words are dire though)
  15. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    They're called "top end" for a reason. :p
  16. Rodrat

    Rodrat pfm Member

    Big tabs, you are surely missing your emperors clothes, anything by 'the Kate' has to be brilliant.
    Spider likes this.
  17. mikeg

    mikeg pfm Member

    Variety of reasons for this:

    Damaged cartridge

    Dirty stylus

    Dirty record

    Worn stylus

    Worn/damaged records - particularly if bought second hand

    Inherent in the recording

    Cartridge setup - it needs to be spot on. Bias is often overlooked, usually set to the same as VTF and left but I have found that even very small adjustments can make a significant difference (I use an Ittok too)

  18. Whatsisnaim

    Whatsisnaim pfm Member

    I wonder if your amp is not helping here. The 282 has a reputation for being quite lively, and partnering it with a 300 might be revealing this even more. What rack are they on?
  19. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Bias requirement depends upon the cartridge and the (length of) arm. A Koetsu needs hardly any bias, whereas other moving coils may need considerably more. However, it's unusual for one to need more than, say, half or two-thirds of the VTF. I don't know about moving magnets (have long forgotten) but due to their normally higher compliance/lighter VTFs, a higher bias may well be needed. Generally, it's been a pfm suggestion to start at around half to two thirds, and slacken off from there. Anti-skate provision is a 'by ear' thing and doesn't have any hard and fast recommendations, except by usage experience.

    I had my Benz Ebony at less than half VTF, but this was with a 12" arm, and cart's within a manufacturer's line-up may well have different responses to biasing.
  20. mikeg

    mikeg pfm Member


    I remember trying the 2/3rds suggestions a few years ago and ended up with excessive wear to one side of the stylus.

    For an alternative view I have pasted a quote from ThomasOK on the Linn forum:

    "However, it is very rare in my experience, to find an arm that needs less than the matching anti-skating. So I would start at the recommended setting and then try going up from there until you get the most musical performance"

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