SQ of old LPs.....

[foxwelljsly]

I have been buying secondhand LPs for 40 years. My basic criteria is, unless it's fiendishly rare, any record I buy should be VG+/Ex on a visual grade, ideally be a very early pressing or, at the very least, be pressed before 1990 by a reputable company.

Most recently, I've been filling the gaps in my collection of early Larry Coryell LPs and the wildly varying SQ of what I have received (all UK/US first pressings) has reawakened musings I've previously had about buying old LPs.

When you get a really good sounding pressing that's fully analogue, there's no doubt it's the most engaging medium short of 7ips R2R. However, I have a lot of very old LPs, many of them first pressings from the country of origin, that exceed this criteria that sound like shit. Many LPs I buy that meet this criteria sound sub-par for reasons other than surface marks (Usually noise or what sounds like groove wear on LPs that don't even have spindle marks) and finding a really great sounding LP is a pretty hit and miss affair. I'd also add that the assumption that later pressings sound noticeably worse than first pressings from the country of origin does not always seem to hold true.

I am beginning to wonder if the used record market is flooded with first pressings that are mint because they sounded like shit out of the factory, got played once and now just get passed around between collectors.

And I'm wondering if early stampers and mothers from the golden days of vinyl got used for longer out of necessity and, as a result, there are quite a few duff early or first pressings out there.

Whatever, finding great sounding LPs seems to be a bit of a crap shoot.

Any thoughts?

 

[madmike]

Indeed...I have tried 2 early versions of Focus III on Polydor and both sound like the top end has been rolled off...just played the cd version and frankly its not that much better.

 

[Martyn Miles]

It might seem a bit strange, but my copy of Roger Whittaker’s 1971 album ‘New World in the Morning’ has
excellent sound quality.
10p in a charity shop, many years ago.

 

[foxwelljsly]

It might seem a bit strange, but my copy of Roger Whittaker’s 1971 album ‘New World in the Morning’ has
excellent sound quality.
10p in a charity shop, many years ago.

Funnily enough, those EMI budget 'World of......' LPs from the late 60's, which usually feature the likes of Val Doonican et al, always sound amazing.

Shame the only vaguely hip ones I've seen and heard are a couple each by John Mayall and Eric Clapton and one with a load of early Bowie. Although the Anton Karas zither one with the Third Man theme is also pretty good.

 

[Mike Reed]

Just my take, as I've found LP S.Q.s to differ on different kit I've had over decades. However, some have always delivered he goods. The s.q. from my 1958 (?) 'High Society' is mostly (1 track duff) excellent. Late sixties' Fairports, Dylan etc. also stunning. You don't mention it but I guess you are using an RCM. SRA, general alignment geometry, thickness of record (ref. VTA) all play a minor part in s.q , esp comparing thin 70s stuff with (yuk) 180 gram. On a good vinyl replay system, most records sounds quite engaging, even if the recording is dated or flawed.

 

[Stemcor]

Buying music on any medium has always been a bit of a lottery. I have superb and poor sounding lps and cds - I just accept that it’s part of the “fun”.

I have noticed that late 50’s and 60’s pressings tend to be of a higher quality. I’m not sure that there have really been improvements in recording techniques over the last half-century. As Tony L says “mastering is everything”.

Direct message to the op. I hope you have a copy of Standing Ovation. One of my favourite albums. Excellent musicianship and a very nice recording as well.

 

[paulfromcamden]

I guess there have always been shit records. I've picked up random jazz LPs from the 1950s that were bordering on the unlistenable. I used to have a Bach organ record from the 50s that had an earth hum(!) so loud it almost drowned out the recording. I'm still scratching my head wondering how on earth that got pressed.

Though I'll admit I don't apply your "reputable company" rule very stringently...

 

[paulfromcamden]

don't even have spindle marks

I met a guy once who would buy random house and techno 12"s based purely on the fact they had lots of spindle marks and so were probably something good. Left all the mint stuff in the £1 boxes.

 

[Nagraboy]

The record rating system makes me chuckle. ‘Good’ sounds anything but good and VG+ often sounds just about acceptable.

 

[paulfromcamden]

The record rating system makes me chuckle. ‘Good’ sounds anything but good and VG+ often sounds just about acceptable.

Maybe we need a new more honest grading system...

Mint/unplayed
NM-
EX
VG+
Bit crackly but worth it for that great track at the start of side B
Might just about track OK if you put 10p on the headshell
Frisbee
'Fair'

 

[Mr Pig]

So vinyl record quality is variable? I'm in shock!

 

[Woodface]

It’s definitely a crap shoot, I’ve given up on it. I can’t enjoy a crap pressing & don’t like it dictating what I listen to.

 

[BrendanD]

I love my vinyl - but just a small collection of 250. I buy used 'ending soon' low bid LPs on eBay. They must be described as first press and 'mint'. When they arrive I clean them in an ultrasonic machine and give them a play. If they click or crackle rather than once per side they get returned (1/10 do). eBay are very good in taking returns on over hyped condition LPs. It's mostly 60-90s stuff on LP, unless the odd one I buy new, the more recent stuff is streamed. Thats why its important to have both sources at a level that brings a smile....

 

[tricky1]

If they click or crackle rather than once per side they get returned (1/10 do).

That's a bit extreme. I have several brand new records purchased at time of release that are far worse than that but I know you won't get better..it was just the quality of that vinyl pressing/manufacture at the time. I'd rather listen to that if it's music I like.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

"...I'd also add that the assumption that later pressings sound noticeably worse than first pressings from the country of origin does not always seem to hold true..."

I've found early pressings are usually best - and sometimes dramatically so - but I have not had much luck with the country of origin concept.

If a pressing's country of origin is UK, GERMANY or HOLLAND - an early pressing is a very safe bet - as IMHO, vinyl LP pressings from these countries are typically the best anyway.

Also, SWISS, FRENCH and JAPANESE pressings can often be very utterly superb.

Whilst I do have some wonderful USA pressings, typically I find USA early pressings on big USA labels to be disappointing. Sadly this includes CBS, RCA, CAPITOL, ATLANTIC and WARNER. However, early pressings from smaller USA specialist labels like VERVE, BLUE NOTE, RIVERSIDE, RHINO, ROUNDER, CHESS, NARADA, WINDHAM HILL, etc. can be very good.

As mentioned above, there are exceptions to every rule - but these are my general findings.

I guess each of us have our favourite labels and pressings - and those labels and pressings we absolutely avoid - based upon personal experience.

 

[irons1965]

Indeed...I have tried 2 early versions of Focus III on Polydor and both sound like the top end has been rolled off...just played the cd version and frankly its not that much better.

I've always thought that about the album whatever format or pressing.
Fwiw I have a Dutch press from the 1980's on Imperial that fares no better either.

 

[RJohan]

I've found early pressings are usually best - and sometimes dramatically so - but I have not had much luck with the country of origin concept.

If a pressing's country of origin is UK, GERMANY or HOLLAND - an early pressing is a very safe bet - as IMHO, vinyl LP pressings from these countries are typically the best anyway.

Also, SWISS, FRENCH and JAPANESE pressings can often be very utterly superb.

Whilst I do have some wonderful USA pressings, typically I find USA early pressings on big USA labels to be disappointing. Sadly this includes CBS, RCA, CAPITOL, ATLANTIC and WARNER. However, early pressings from smaller USA specialist labels like VERVE, BLUE NOTE, RIVERSIDE, RHINO, ROUNDER, CHESS, NARADA, WINDHAM HILL, etc. can be very good.

As mentioned above, there are exceptions to every rule - but these are my general findings.

I guess each of us have our favourite labels and pressings - and those labels and pressings we absolutely avoid - based upon personal experience.

Yes. For me it's early MFSL's pressed on 'super vinyl' in Japan (can by now be sorted under 'old'). Don't think the super vinyl has that much to do with, just the general quality of everything(?) done in Japan.

Now, someone will pop up and argue that the half speed masters sound bad. I'm ready!

 

[robbyd]

Personally - i think that accepted record grading system that most sellers go by is absolute sh!*t.

I purchased a led zep 4 plum red one Christmas, from eBay, alcohol involved I admit; and although it passed at the visual tests, and described as whatever, the disc has a slight low-level crackle all through.

The only test I'll take is play tested / but even then, you rely on the honesty and judgement of the seller...

Handlng a disc in person is really the best way to take a chance, I feel...

 

[BrendanD]

Personally - i think that accepted record grading system that most sellers go by is absolute sh!*t.

I purchased a led zep 4 plum red one Christmas, from eBay, alcohol involved I admit; and although it passed at the visual tests, and described as whatever, the disc has a slight low-level crackle all through.

The only test I'll take is play tested / but even then, you rely on the honesty and judgement of the seller...

Handlng a disc in person is really the best way to take a chance, I feel...

Low level crackle is often just ingrained dirt. A good ultrasonic clean usually sorts that.

 

[Tim Jones]

I suspect the best pressings I own are also some of the oldest. I have an original version of Take Five which knocks spots of the 180gm reissue my wife bought me for my 50th.

My 80s XTC records sound much better than newer reissues.

The only comparatively new (1994) piece of vinyl I own that is really excellent is Shellac's "At Action Park". All the other reissues (Slits, Wire, Bowie, etc) are middling at best. Some of them are really pretty bad.

As mentioned above, give these old pressings a competent clean and they can be startling.