Seanm
pfm Member
I believe that was made up, which is why people are cross with Boyle.
Speeches in parliament over anti-semitic activities.
- Thread starter HydeLea
- Start date
Tony L
Administrator
As I’m sure do MaxFlinn and Merlin. The anti-Semitism thing is very real and it needs flushing right out of the party if they are ever to be considered an electoral contender again. Four percentage points FFS! At this point in the electoral cycle and against this government pretty much guarantees a Tory landslide next time unless something very real changes within Labour.
PS Rather disappointing to see Merlin chickened-out of writing anything anti-“Zionist” on his bedsheet Royal Wedding protest, yet continually spouts this bollocks here on my website behind a pseudonym.
Still
he said his naim was ralph
It wasn't Boyle who said it.
But as Tony has pointed out the eccentric left aren't doing themselves, or Labour ppp, any favours.
Mescalito
pfm Member
Can't you understand that all your pro-Palestinian proselytising achieves precisely nothing? It has zero impact on Israeli policies or actions.
Israel views Hamas as an existential threat, and reacts accordingly. Let them get on with it, it has nothing to do with the U.K.
Chris
Seanm
pfm Member
The idea that Labour are going to lose the next election over non-Labour members talking about Israelis killing Palestinians is itself eccentric. Antisemitism in the LP is real, but not systemic, and will be dealt with. No one here talking about it actually gives a ! about it: it’s a bone for petulant centrists to chew on.
The centre’s gone well gammon. OT has been Mescalatinised.
The centre’s gone well gammon. OT has been Mescalatinised.
maxflinn
pfm Member
It's disappointing Tony that rather than debating you join the resident site sycophant to troll. I thought you were better than that to be honest.
I don't think it will have gone unnoticed to others either that you constantly stereotype Merlin and I as some kind of Jew-hating extremists whilst never giving any of the rest of the many Palestinian supporters here any such grief. It's as if you want to make an example out of us, to shut them up.
How you don't consider yourself right-wing I honestly don't know, because your behaviour and allegiances are very right-wing. In fact expect a glut of right-wingers liking the post of yours that I'm quoting.
Polls demonstrate that there's less anti-Semitism in Labour than the other parties, yet you don't complain about anti-Semitism in the other parties nor do you question why Britain's Jewish groups don't either, but only focus on Labour. You ignore this as well as ignoring the Israel lobby's stated intention to ensure total allegiance from both main parties as they enjoy in the US where AIPAC dominates Congress. You ignore its roll in the fabricated Labour anti-Semitism scandal. You make no condemnation of the LFI's sickening statement on the slaughter in Gaza. You presume that virtually every Palestinian in Gaza is a hardline Islamist.
Sorry, but by accusing me of anti-Semitism you've annoyed me, so I felt it was time for a few home truths. Let's see if you can deal with them by way of the adult, intellectual debate one presumes you want to see from others on your site. Are you able, or will you revert back to the safety of ridicule and the guaranteed likes of the sycophants?
Over to you.
merlin
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Post reported to mods for ad hom.
Play be your rules boss or scrap them. It's called "equality".
Max, Tony doesn't have an argument that stands up to even basic scrutiny hence the insults.
The United Nations, Amnesty International and many others say he's misinformed in his opinions.
Of course, those bodies get a lot of criticism for alleged biases and obsessions themselves - most often from Countries like the US, Israel and Saudi Arabia, and racist, sexist bigots in Parliament like Tory MP Philip Davies.
I'm genuinely surprised to see Tony siding with these extremists and racists. I thought he was more balanced than that.
maxflinn
pfm Member
What are you even on about? Can't you see that the post you quoted highlighted the stated intention of the Israel lobby to 'work' to ensure total obedience from both main parties, as it enjoys in the US? Do you see that I highlight how Corbyn's principled stand wrt injustices and war makes him an obvious target for said lobby?
Why do you quote that post asking me about pro-Palestinian proselytising?
Witchfinder-general
pfm member
Massive interference in UK democracy? How does that manifest itself exactly?
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Rewind.
merlin
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Would love to but the boss has started a string of ad homs against people making perfectly valid points that are being echoed by politicians and human rights activists the World over.
It's really up to the boss to remove the personal attacks. I don't see them coming back at him or any of the moderating team.
It's really up to the boss to remove the personal attacks. I don't see them coming back at him or any of the moderating team.
maxflinn
pfm Member
Merlin, I just can't understand how anyone could genuinely not see exactly why Corbyn's Labour has spent nearly three years battling against alleged anti-Semitism problems.
I mean, look at the US. Both parties nearly always disagree about things, but are totally aligned when it comes to Israel. In fact they compete to see which can be more supportive, regardless of context. AIPAC dominates Congress there too and the careers of pro-Palestinian politicians go one way: down!
Conservative and Labour Friends of Israel are said to be amongst the most powerful lobby groups in the UK, and pro-Israel Jewish donors are amongst the biggest supporters of both parties.
We have an Israel lobby operative saying on a hidden recording that Israel wants the same main party allegiance in the UK that it enjoys in the US, in a documentary highlighting the Israel lobby's plot to 'take down' British ministers that are pro-Palestinian.
And when we get the first leader of one of the two main parties, at least to my knowledge, and in recent times, that is pro-Palestinian, all of a sudden we have an anti-Semitism scandal, in his party, in the party of the lifelong anti-racist, anti-war campaigner.
And Tony does not even want to discuss the possibility that this scandal may have been created by these very powerful pro-Israel forces in the UK, whose stated aim is to ensure allegiance to Israel from both parties, and purposely sensationalised and drawn out by a very Israel-friendly right-wing press, the BBC etc.
No, he blames Corbyn, you, me, and anyone but the people any objective analysis would point to.
I don't get it.
I mean, look at the US. Both parties nearly always disagree about things, but are totally aligned when it comes to Israel. In fact they compete to see which can be more supportive, regardless of context. AIPAC dominates Congress there too and the careers of pro-Palestinian politicians go one way: down!
Conservative and Labour Friends of Israel are said to be amongst the most powerful lobby groups in the UK, and pro-Israel Jewish donors are amongst the biggest supporters of both parties.
We have an Israel lobby operative saying on a hidden recording that Israel wants the same main party allegiance in the UK that it enjoys in the US, in a documentary highlighting the Israel lobby's plot to 'take down' British ministers that are pro-Palestinian.
And when we get the first leader of one of the two main parties, at least to my knowledge, and in recent times, that is pro-Palestinian, all of a sudden we have an anti-Semitism scandal, in his party, in the party of the lifelong anti-racist, anti-war campaigner.
And Tony does not even want to discuss the possibility that this scandal may have been created by these very powerful pro-Israel forces in the UK, whose stated aim is to ensure allegiance to Israel from both parties, and purposely sensationalised and drawn out by a very Israel-friendly right-wing press, the BBC etc.
No, he blames Corbyn, you, me, and anyone but the people any objective analysis would point to.
I don't get it.
Witchfinder-general
pfm member
Maxflin said Israeli interference, not Russian, but since you ask, I think a few Russian troll bots on facebook isn't gonna swing an election, and the whole Cambridge Analytica thing I find tedious.
merlin
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I get it. I don't agree with it and it shocks me but I do get it.
I'm sure part of the reason is that he is fed up to the back teeth of the subject dominating the off topic forum of his website but it's not your fault (or indeed mine) that the IDF are employing snipers to shoot civilians and that the subject is rarely out of the news.
He appears keen to jump on the anti-Corbyn bandwagon for reasons best known to himself.
Meanwhile, credit where credit is due. Some Israelis do call this BS as many see it.
I'm sure part of the reason is that he is fed up to the back teeth of the subject dominating the off topic forum of his website but it's not your fault (or indeed mine) that the IDF are employing snipers to shoot civilians and that the subject is rarely out of the news.
He appears keen to jump on the anti-Corbyn bandwagon for reasons best known to himself.
Meanwhile, credit where credit is due. Some Israelis do call this BS as many see it.
maxflinn
pfm Member
Have you not read the last few pages? It's covered there.
merlin
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Max was inferring that sovereign states with advanced intelligence operations were capable of influencing the democratic process overseas and you belittled that suggestion.
Therefore I'm asking what you think of the allegations against Russia. I'm assuming you consider those to be utterly fabricated and unrealistic too?
maxflinn
pfm Member
From memory I'm pretty sure that Tony has never entertained the idea that the alleged anti-Semitism scandal in Labour was anything but real, and self-inflicted. Maybe that's because the subject being discussed here displeases him. I don't know, but it seems to me more a case of his frustration with Labour not being miles ahead of the Tories in the polls.
I keep saying they might be were it not for the establishment smear campaign, anti-Semitism nonsense etc, but he won't have it.
Like you I realise that the principles that makes Corbyn who he is are what will make his winning actually worthwhile, but it appears Tony would sooner see some spineless right-winger taking over and winning with Labour.
I can't see the point personally.
merlin
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The point is a centrist one - as pointed out by Joseph Finlay in the Times of Israel
Jeremy Corbyn has been MP for Islington North since 1983 – a constituency with a significant Jewish population. Given that he has regularly polled over 60% of the vote (73% in 2017) it seems likely that a sizeable number of Jewish constituents voted for him…
He is close friends with the leaders of the Jewish Socialist Group, from whom he has gained a rich knowledge of the history of the Jewish Labour Bund, and he has named the defeat of Mosley’s Fascists at the Battle of Cable as a key historical moment for him. His 2017 Holocaust Memorial Day statement talked about Shmuel Zygielboym, the Polish Bund leader exiled to London who committed suicide in an attempt to awaken the world to the Nazi genocide. How many British politicians have that level of knowledge of modern Jewish history?
Remember that when Corbyn was being arrested for protesting again Apartheid in South Africa, many if not most Conservatives were calling for Nelson Mandela to be executed for terrorism.
Jeremy Corbyn has been MP for Islington North since 1983 – a constituency with a significant Jewish population. Given that he has regularly polled over 60% of the vote (73% in 2017) it seems likely that a sizeable number of Jewish constituents voted for him…
He is close friends with the leaders of the Jewish Socialist Group, from whom he has gained a rich knowledge of the history of the Jewish Labour Bund, and he has named the defeat of Mosley’s Fascists at the Battle of Cable as a key historical moment for him. His 2017 Holocaust Memorial Day statement talked about Shmuel Zygielboym, the Polish Bund leader exiled to London who committed suicide in an attempt to awaken the world to the Nazi genocide. How many British politicians have that level of knowledge of modern Jewish history?
Remember that when Corbyn was being arrested for protesting again Apartheid in South Africa, many if not most Conservatives were calling for Nelson Mandela to be executed for terrorism.
Witchfinder-general
pfm member
Did you ever think Corbyn was gonna get an easy ride? I mean the only way that old Labour militants now dominate the centre of the party/shadow government is because Labour changed the way their leader was elected, radically. A centrist like Kinnock used to get enough flak from the right wing press, Corbyn is a gift to them, and the conservative party! Not that I disagree with his views, but I hate the victimology of the Corbyn/Momentum crowd. And so what Israeli lobbyists want to influence politics, there are all sorts of lobby's, as long the rules are adhered to, then that's democracy. Its up to the left wing lobbyists/political groups to push their agenda. I watched Newsnight the day after the latest Israeli massacre, I didn't notice any bias towards Israel or Palestine.