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Speakers for low volume

Conan

Conan

Loop digger
I'm looking for some advice.
My system includes Node 2i, Nait 2 and Harbeth p3es2.
Room is a perfect 4x4m and I sit approx 3m from the speakers which are just 30cm from the front wall.
All my listening is at low volume and never above 80db.
I like the Harbeth but never hear a pair of LS3/5a.
Would the 3/5a be a good choice over the Harbeth?
I listen mostly to jazz, funk and electronica
 
Is there any way you can rearrange things so you can sit nearer? (the nearer the better). That would make a surprising difference.
 
I’ve had both speakers OP and my listening habits are almost exactly like your own both sets of speakers are excellent for low level listening, the Harbeths were brilliant for that but personally I’d go with the LS3/5As but to be honest there’s not a lot in it.

I had the Stirling Broadcast V2s, amazing speakers IMO.
 
Conan said:
I'm looking for some advice.
My system includes Node 2i, Nait 2 and Harbeth p3es2.
Room is a perfect 4x4m and I sit approx 3m from the speakers which are just 30cm from the front wall.
All my listening is at low volume and never above 80db.
I like the Harbeth but never hear a pair of LS3/5a.
Would the 3/5a be a good choice over the Harbeth?
I listen mostly to jazz, funk and electronica
Click to expand...

I listen mainly to jazz and classical. I used P3ESR for about 3 years in my office 3m x 4m, great mids but lacking in the lower regions for bass, which is an issue with jazz. They are also rolled off at the top. I was using a Powernode 2i.

I changed to Raidho X1 with a REL S/2 that I had in storage and the result was superb. Better in both treble and bass thanks to the famous Raidho quasi-ribbon tweeter. They are in the classifieds because I've now got a ceiling system, and was not pushing the sale as one of my kids might be interested in using them next year.

Harbeth generally are very good at low volume and I had them 15cm from a wall, but with 30 degrees of toe-in.

So whatever you get, I would recommend a sub. I have a surplus BK400 that I would sell for very little, but they do smaller ones that might suit you and they are superb value. I used the BK400 with Harbeth SHL5+ because they are also lacking in bass for good jazz.
https://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm

Neither the 60w Class D Powernode (sold) or a 60w A/B Audiolab M-One (my son now uses it) got the most of from P3ESR. I bought a CXA81 and that was much better. It's an amazing machine for the money. I appreciate that Naim have good peak power, but I wonder if the Nait 2 is also an issue. You are sitting a long way away for small speakers.

The other obvious choice is one of the KEF LS speakers.
 
sls4321 said:
I listen mainly to jazz and classical. I used P3ESR for about 3 years in my office 3m x 4m, great mids but lacking in the lower regions for bass, which is an issue with jazz. They are also rolled off at the top. I was using a Powernode 2i.

I changed to Raidho X1 with a REL S/2 that I had in storage and the result was superb. Better in both treble and bass thanks to the famous Raidho quasi-ribbon tweeter. They are in the classifieds because I've now got a ceiling system, and was not pushing the sale as one of my kids might be interested in using them next year.

Harbeth generally are very good at low volume and I had them 15cm from a wall, but with 30 degrees of toe-in.

So whatever you get, I would recommend a sub. I have a surplus BK400 that I would sell for very little, but they do smaller ones that might suit you and they are superb value. I used the BK400 with Harbeth SHL5+ because they are also lacking in bass for good jazz.
https://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm

Neither the 60w Class D Powernode (sold) or a 60w A/B Audiolab M-One (my son now uses it) got the most of from P3ESR. I bought a CXA81 and that was much better. It's an amazing machine for the money. I appreciate that Naim have good peak power, but I wonder if the Nait 2 is also an issue. You are sitting a long way away for small speakers.

The other obvious choice is one of the KEF LS speakers.
Click to expand...
I also have a Exposure Super XX and a Quad 306 but the Harbeths sound good with any of my amps.
 
Conan said:
I also have a Exposure Super XX and a Quad 306 but the Harbeths sound good with any of my amps.
Click to expand...

We had an Inca Tech Claymore here, fully restored. Used it with P3ESR. My experience is that Harbeth are good with plenty of amps, but you get the best with more power. Before using integrated amplifiers I used Quad 909 stereo with both P3ESR and SHL5+. I also tried 909 Mono and QMP, but they didn't add anything. My choice of CXA81 was to get a good integrated amplifier as close as possible to 100w.

If I was doing a small room system, I'd probably use Quad Artera, great value. I heard Artera in a large room with 2912 ESL's and it was superb. It was a Quad demo and the Nordost Tyr cables probably cost almost as much as the rest of the system.

Whatever amp, I found I needed a subwoofer with Harbeth for good jazz. The Raidho and Wilson I now use in my main system have more top end and liven up the percussion without being in the least bit bright or fatiguing.

My experience of Harbeth is that they play safe and play to their strengths, and used to be great value, but have become quite a bit more expensive in recent years.
 
p.s. Colin, the Inca Tech is still doing good service in my son's flat.

We bought it at Audio Gold after a Musical Fidelity A100 blew up in front of us. Had one way back when. The irony was that his first job was with the original designer of the Musical Fidelity casework, quite revolutionary at the time, and that blew up as well.
 
Has anyone compared the Harbeth p3es2 with the P3ESR? What are the differences?
Would the Harbeths be a better choice than LS3/5a for my style of music and circumstances?
 
I also listen to a lot of Jazz and electronica. I had the P3ESR for about a year but sold them eventually. Too smooth, too laid back and not enough presence at low volumes. Rolled off treble as mentioned above. Agree with the ‘play safe’ comment. I have settled with ProAc Tablette 10 Signatures paired with a small BK200 subwoofer which is just right (these tiny speakers all need a sub). Excellent for late night listening at about 75db. Nice and open with great resolution. (also had LS50 Meta but couldn’t get on with them - especially the bass)
 
Jezzer said:
I also listen to a lot of Jazz and electronica. I have settled with ProAc Tablette 10 Signatures paired with a small BK200 subwoofer which is just right (these tiny speakers all need a sub). Excellent for late night listening at about 75db. Nice and open with great resolution. (also had LS50 Meta but couldn’t get on with them - especially the bass)
Click to expand...
I also tried the Kef LS50.
I liked it's sound signature but could not control the excessive bass
 
Conan said:
I was thinking about the normal P3ESR
Click to expand...

I was using the P3ESR. With the speakers at one end of the room and you at the other end, you are going to have trouble with bass, treble, imaging and possibly lack of power. It’s going to be the same with any 5” driver speaker.

If you are going to use a sub, which seems to be the consensus, there is no point trying to force a small speaker to do the hard work to 55hz. Thats why the Raidho worked, because the barely go below 80hz and I relied on the sub to do the heavy lifting to almost 100hz.

it is very easy, and pretty vital, to dial in the sub with a UMIK microphone and REW. There are cheaper usb mics, but the UMIK is pre-calibrated, there is a label on the mic with a code, you enter it in REW and off you go. You might want to measure your existing setup.
 
With a square room and low powered amp, I think you can do worse than a sealed 3-way system like a pair of Yamaha NS-1000Ms. Yes, I've tried this before and it sounds fantastic.
 
Conan said:
Has anyone compared the Harbeth p3es2 with the P3ESR? What are the differences?
Would the Harbeths be a better choice than LS3/5a for my style of music and circumstances?
Click to expand...
Conan, I think you bought your P3ES2s from me? I also have P3ESRs and Rogers LS3/5As, so have compared them all. I ran them all with a BK200 sub. I slightly prefer the P3ESRs to the other two as I think they are a bit smoother and with a better bass response, but the differences are certainly not night and day and I could -and have! - live happily with any of them. I think you should keep the ES2s and try a sub. If you are looking for a completely different presentation then I think you need to move away from the BBC type mini monitor and try something else.
 
For low level listening, a larger speaker might be more appropriate. It’ll reproduce a wider frequency response more naturally at low volume levels, have you thought about something like a BBC LS 5/9 or maybe Harbeth HL5, or Audionote AN/K (I really like the Audionotes).
 
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