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Speakers and Amp combination - Movies (& Music)

ELH

Member
Hello everyone,

I'll try to be concise (as it's not usually the case). I'm currently looking for a setup that will be mostly used for watching movies (80%) and listenning to music (20%).

Thing is I already have a modest setup (in another room) dedicated to music which consists in a Rotel RA971 MKII, a Micromega Mydac, google chromecast audio and a pair of KEF 103.2 (with stands). This setup was my first step into the HIFI world (if I may say) and honestly, I love it! (I also have an Audiolab 8000A which sounded too powerful (nervous?) and tiring with the KEF and also some Monitor BX5 which have always left me "unconvinced").

Coming back to the object of my request, the room where I'll be setting up this new installation is 4mx3m (with a 3,6m height). As I want it "discreet", I was aiming at a 2.0 or 2.1 system. Aesthetically (maybe because of the KEF), I'd prefer bookshelves with stands (+sub) but you'll tell me that it is certainly less compact that two columns but I'm ready to make that compromise. I've tried watching movies with my current setup, everything seemed low and, logically, dialogues were not precise at all.

As my budget is pretty tight without being precise (it will depend on the products avaialble but I'd say between 600-800euro but I could sell the Monitor audio/Audiolab to add an extra $$) and I like to make good deals, 2nd hand products are not a problem (my source will be a macmini certainly linked to a dac (Schiit modi 3, topping,...?)). Precision: my listenning volume is pretty average, even low I'd say.

I honestly don't know if those could be a nice possibility but I've seen, in my price range, some Energy Acoustics AE2 or some KEF LS50 (50th anniversary) which may be a good start. About the amplifier, I'm kinda lost as I don't really know where I should be heading (AV amp, Stereo,...); I don't especially like/look for gimmicks.

Thank you already for your help and knowledge!

ELH
 
Hi,

My rig is set up primarily for music, and my surround is, in effect 5.0 - the front left and rights dealing with bass. You are after a 2.0 or 2.1 system - most budget av receivers will accommodate that these days, and are very good at doing so. My Onkyo is about 2 yrs old, but is amazing for what it does. But why not just take the phono outs from your AV/TV into your amp?

Several other contributors on here will do similar things with their set up.
 
Recently moved from a music 2.1 system that was used for music to a 'proper' receiver.
Denon x4700 is the receiver we opted for after lot of reading/nosing at what features we needed and a few auditions.
Sounds really nice, far better than I expected.

Front Speakers are a pair of DIY Ergo IX..
Sub is BK monolith DF

Have since added a center, surrounds and rears and I have to confess I love what it does in movies. :)

Previously I was on an Audiolab Mdac and Hypex NC400 amps, and this sounds almost as good, but with the ability to do surround sound etc

Doesnt really help you with the 'what to get', but my experience has been very positive!
Keep your current speakers, try a receiver out and see how you get on.

My surrounds (Dali Oberon on wall speakers) and rears (Kef 2010i) were both ebay bargains... Which helped!
 
Thanks to both of you for those fast replies!

But why not just take the phono outs from your AV/TV into your amp?

Based on your advice, I took the Audiolab and the Monitor Audio (as the Kef and the Rotel are in another dedicated "music room") but I don't think it is a "happy match". On top of that, my "Sony KDL TV" has only one analogical audio out which is the "headphone out", I don't think that Sony's dac is the best suited for this task, right? From what I heard, it's "okay".
I could eventually use the MicromegaDac to try the optical out...

This may be a silly question but...Can you confirm me that it is normal, when watching movies, that I have to turn the volume knob up (e.g. position 3.5 on 1 to 10 scale) to get the same level of sound as I would when I use the same rig for music only (e.g. position 2 on 1 to 10 scale)?

budget av receivers will accommodate that these days, and are very good at doing so.

Do you happen to have some recommendations?

Denon x4700 is the receiver we opted for

This seems like a nice setup but to be honest, it's above my budget though.

Keep your current speakers, try a receiver out and see how you get on.

I intend to keep the Kef as hifi speakers (at least for now) but for the Monitor Audio, let's say that I've had them for several years and I'm willing to experience and discover new stuff :) For the Audiolab (which seems not highly regard here), I may keep it eventhough I was not sure it could cope with movie watching.

Thank you again!
 
Its about working out which features are important to you.. How many speakers you might want in the future, do you want 4k/8k? Will you use ARC? 3d? How many HDMI/other inputs do you have/need.
The simpler your requirements are the easier/cheaper the answer will be.
It may well be a case that a few year old second hand receiver will do what you want. There are bargains to be had, just quickly cruising facebook marketplace near me and there are lots of options on there from £40 upwards. Find some review/have a read, but as a starting point to have a play almost anything that ticks your boxes and is cheap will do.

If all you ever are going to do is 2 speakers and a sub (2.1) then running the optical out from your tv into a dac and going from there.. I did this for a large number of years and it worked very very well.

Adding a center (so moving to 3.1) ties the dialog to the screen (the center speaker maily does dialog and some positional audio stuff). This made a big difference to me with films etc.

Running seperate amps for your front pair of speakers makes a difference, the receiver is then freed up to have a bit more power for everything else. But then you need to gain match the center to the fronts to the sub.. And thats where you get into audessy/dirac room correction or just using a measurement mic, playing white noise and doing it manually.

No right answer.. Lol!
 
This may be a silly question but...Can you confirm me that it is normal, when watching movies, that I have to turn the volume knob up (e.g. position 3.5 on 1 to 10 scale) to get the same level of sound as I would when I use the same rig for music only (e.g. position 2 on 1 to 10 scale)?

I can't give any advice for your other questions but I can confirm that, running my Sony TV via optical into the same DAC as my music streamer, the TV requires a higher volume. This is after disabling all internal audio settings on the TV. I don't know why the volume is lower. It's (very mildly) annoying.
 
Thank you @sam_cat for the advice!

You're totally right, there is no right answer but I'm not looking for one either. I'm not sure I'll upgrade soon to a a bigger setup as I want keep things simple and clean (but in the long terme, it can always happen).

For a 2.0(or.1) setup, what would you recommend between:
- Buying a dac (+ keeping the Audiolab)?
- Buying a few years old AV receiver? In this case, I don't have big requirements but HDMI is one (and eventually audio streaming capabilities would be a plus), what would you suggest?

Besides those questions, I'd like to have your opinion or anyone else about the current possibility I have to buy either a set of Energy Acoustics AE2 (with original stands) or a pair of KEF 104 (with new caps, new ferrofluid and refoamed donuts). Those set could be either used in the "Hifi" or "Theater" room.

Thanks again for your time and passion!
 
Speakers is always a personal preference... Need to audition and see what you like and what works well with the kit you have.

2.0/2.1 you dont really need a receiver, its simple stuff that normal hifi kit can do and do very very well.
Tv out (optical probably) into a dac, dac feeds your amp and sub.
Then the tv has everything plugged into it (all the sources) so source control etc is done with the tv.
Keeps it simple.
 
In 4m x 3m I would be inclined to go with stand mounts and a sub - much easier to control bass than floor standers with larger bass drivers.

Jim
 
Do you need HDMI In/Out switching? If not one approach would be sell the MA/Audiolab and with the pot of cash buy a used flagship AV Amp/Receiver from a few generations back, they drop like a stone value wise once superceded by thing such as Dolby Atmos and HDMI. You might even get an Amp with the 1st version of HDMI as people get rid when they buy new 4K/8K TV and PS5 etc. Thinking NAD, Arcam, Pioneer and Denon from eBay/Classifieds, these amps make more than a reasonable job of Stereo and can be had for a couple of hundred when new they were £thousands.

Then choose a 2.1 or 3.1 - a centre makes a tremendous difference to TV/Movie watching. A BK or REL Sub to finish.

Speakers wise it’s hard to recommend anything specific but if you look long enough you could get a nice L/R Centre from ProAc, Castle, Neat, much more common would be B&W. I would have suggested the old MA GR range, but if the MA Bronze is not to taste probably best look elsewhere.
 
BP9040 not bookshelf but take up as much room as bookshelf with stands - very compact slim floorstanders design with built in subs for a 2.2 system
91db so mid/hf can be driven with a 8wpc SET or AVR & flat to 22hz
excellent for music/films + you can clip in atmos modules on top for a 3.3 system or add matching centre speakers
use 4 of them + centre for a very compact 5.4.4 Atmos system

BP9040 (definitivetechnology.com)
Definitive Technology BP9000 Speaker Review | AVForums

image_preview2
 
Again, thank you for your answers!

@sam_cat Do you have any dac suggestion? I'd say my budget is around 100e (new or used), I heard Schiit Modi 3 or Topping E30 were pretty amazing for their price range.

@Amber Audio Your comment made me think that if I had to opt for an Av receiver, I wouldn't want it "brand new" but HMDI 2.0 or 1 could be kinda "future proof" but in term of price/quality, would it be better to go with an AV receiver with modern features (and using HDMI) or an older one (using optical)? Do you have any model to suggest as there is a plethora of choices.

I definitely should try, at some point, a centre speaker. Do you recommend to have a centre with same brand and model as L/R or is the choice more flexible? With a centre, I guess there is no workaround, an AV receiver is required, right?

How much do you think I could see my Audiolab (musically and internally, very good condition but there are some scratches on the black chassis) and the MA BX (mint condition, no scratch at all, no heavy us, no nothing)?

@daytona600 Thank you very much but it seems like the price tag is currently above my league!

It's a real pleasure to learn and read you share your knwoledge!
 
You’re on a limited budget so any modern AV Receiver will be compromised on 2 Channel, also there appear to be bugs in the new generation of receiver specifically around HDMI 2.1 so do your research about the issues.

Old AV Receivers to look into are Arcam AVR100/200/300 series, Pioneer AX10Ai, Denon A1SE, NAD T753 as examples.

Personally I’d have a Movie system and put no weight to it’s 2 channel performance and have a Music system. Split the budget where it matters to you. For the Movie room I would look at a Sub Sat 5.1 with modern AV Receiver as a package, it’ll sound decent enough for casual music listening. For the Music room I’d buy the best speakers I could afford with an eye to them lasting 5, 10, 20 odd years and build back from it.

Check bundles out at Richer, Peter Tyson and Sevenoaks.

To get the most help you need to layout your AV system component models, what you’ll watch and what format is most important. I don’t care if my picture is shit which Sky Gold soap operas but really really care that it’s awesome with UHD 4K Disk, Netflix and Sky UHD. If you don’t have a modern TV and there are only a few out that are true HDMI 2.1 then at the budget end of AV Receivers why pay for something you can’t even use, by the time you have a HDMI 2.1 8K TV and PS5 you’ll be ready for a new AV Receiver anyway.
 
If you don’t want video processing, just audio, I have a Denon AV receiver, I think it’s either a 2805 or 3805. If you are in the Uk, pm me to discuss?
 
I’d get a Sonos Amp. Has a HDMI ARC input and line input. Great for music streaming as well.
 
If you want to use apps like Netflix or Amazon Prime and your existing audio system make sure that the optical audio out works with apps. On some Samsung TVs it doesn't as we found out with our current 58" Samsung which is only a year old. If that's the case with your tv you need to use hdmi ARC and may need a converter if your amp doesn't have an hdmi input, but be careful in your choice of converters as they don't all work.
 
Hi lads (does this sound modern? Sorry I'm from Belgium and french speaking, so tell me if this sounds outdated haha!)

@Amber Audio Again thank you! Indeed, I've read some articles about this 2.1 HMDI which I don't need. But since I'm planning to buy a 4K tv "soon", I thought it'd more adapted if I buy an Av receiver. "Connexion wise", I guess it means, I'll have to choose between a newer Av receiver playing the hub role through its HDMI or an older one with optical ins and the TV being the "HDMI sub" (sources -> HDMI ->TV -> Optical - > Av receiver), right?

About the bundles, there are also ones in France and Belgium but I'm not looking for more than 2.1 set-up.

You're also right about image quality, I really don't care about what's on TV but Movies and TV shows (from Blueray and dematerialized sources) are important (sources will be a PS4, Mac Mini (@Colinb Netflix and Amazon will be coming from there) and Blueray player). I saw some Arcam AVR300 between 249 and 300e (maintenance was done a few months ago) or a NAD T753 for 125 (knob volume is out but remote works), would those be considered as "bargain"/"normal" prices? And would any of recommandations "theoritically" work with my Bronze (in case I don't sell them) or Energy Acoustic AE2?

Thank you @Andrew C! but I'm not from UK though!

Again, thank you and have a nice evening!
 
Bargain price for the Arcam would be £150 ish, on eBay UK there are a couple in that range. NAD a with faulty volume - I would worry that more things might be failing, again a good one should be £150.

Impossible to tell you what to buy exactly but perhaps a sensible approach is new budget AV Receiver £4-600 based on you getting a 4K TV and already having 4K Sources. Examples are Sony and Denon, both good all rounders. If you can find the previous years model it will be more of a bargain, Denon X2600 for example, in AV land the last 2 or 3 years have seen things staying steady waiting for the big changes to HDMI 2.1 and the new PS5 and XBoxSeriesX being released. Plenty of sites with reviews comparing several AV Receivers in the same price bracket, AVForums has lots.
https://www.richersounds.com/sony-strdn1080-blk.html
https://www.sevenoakssoundandvision...iver.aspx?utm_source=whathifi&utm_medium=feed

You could then get a REL T Zero or T5i subwoofer.

Then improve the MA Bronze. You could perhaps move your Kef 103.2 through to the movie system, sell the MA and Audiolab and get better speakers for music like the Kef LS50, the new version called Meta are £1000 but the originals are now being sold off cheap around £500.

I still think a Centre speaker should be listened to if you could borrow one, it does make a big difference, films are geared to aiming 70-80% of the sound to a dedicated Centre channel speaker.
 
Thank you for last answer @Amber Audio !

Just a quick update from what I did those last days... I followed your advice and sold my MA and am about to sell the Audiolab. In the meantime, I bought a pair of Acoustic Energy with original stands and found a Roksan Kandy K2. In other words, I upgraded my Hifi setup (as you advised) but left the HT setup for later.

What a difference from my former setup(!); while the AE being said to be analytical, I find the match to be really dynamic and enjoyable! Dynamic and bass are what struck me the most until now. I don't know if this means something but I find the setup to be "tight" in a positive way, it's like everything is harmonious. Still, these are my first steps into Hifi so I may be overwhelmed by the change but still...

*One other observation: there were some rap albums (Yeah I listen to some as well) that I couldn't listen to anymore thinking there were badly produced and did sound completely dull and flat on the KEF/Rotel setup. I thought I'd face the same hearing experience with AE/Roksan but actually, I was pretty suprised about how it sounded, still some albums were bad but some sounded way better (while not being excellent*

This decision may lead me to your other advice which was to use the KEF with an Av receiver (and center speaker, if you have any advice on which oneto couple with...). But, this will be for later.

I guess one of my priority will be to update my source, currently being a CCA + micromega DAC (Spotify and FLAC/Hi-Res cd's rip). If you have any recommandation (but I may have to open another thread).

Thanks again!
 


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